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[rynait]

hello,

after reading an idea suggested inside an forum suggested by Panthera Leo
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=1bcd206c5dacfd2f5e561361fecde1ce&topic=52026.msg1991301#msg1991301

visualizng this idea, would be nice and easy to sort out tokens, but storing toy token is limited to 10 toytoken in a bin. BUT this is exactly the same as stone blocks, storing 10 blocks to a bin. 

got me looking at coins.  Wiki states there is 1 stack of 500 coins, and 6 STACKS is storable in a bin (total 3,000 coins).

If there are coin tag, then can use the suggestion to store small hill of stone (1 stone to 1 coin) in one bin  (phew alot of work... ).

caveat emptor, can not trade coins and value of coin is multiplied by base material by 10.   

Wondering... this concept moddable? 

Rynait

[Jay]

got me looking at coins.  Wiki states there is 1 stack of 500 coins, and 6 STACKS is storable in a bin (total 3,000 coins).

Coins don't restack, so you'll have six stacks of one.

[Girlinhat]

One of the numerous things on the developmental to-do list is a use for the tax collector.  One of his future duties may be to go around re-stacking coins.  Not that this applies to the idea, because there is no "coin" token.  You can make rocks into blocks, that store 10 per bin, and that's a lot thicker than you might imagine.

For the record, though... you -could- make a few reactions, one that turns a rock into a coin, and another that turns a coin into a rock.  That doesn't solve the stacking issue, because coins won't re-stack right now, but if that's ever added you could make a "compressor" type of thing.

[rynait]

aha...  comes in the 're-package and re-sell' workshop...

collect unstacked and stack it up.


oh  dangnabbit... how to mod shop to stack.

Rynait

[Girlinhat]

I'm not entirely sure you could do that, actually... until the tax collector gets the stacking skill added.  But, as long as we're making bundles and undoing bundles, how about just making a bundle.  Something like reagent:10:stone product:1:bar:get_material_from_reagent - if you made that into a real reaction, would make a "granite bar" which couldn't be used for anything really, because it's neither metal bar nor stone boulder.  Then, you just add a reverse reaction, that takes 1 stone bar and produces 10 stone.  That way, you could store 10 of these bars to a bin, effectively 100 stones per bin.  For that matter you could make it whatever ratio you wanted, like 100 to 1 or whatever.

For added accuracy, I'm not -entirely- sure what a stone bar would do during casual gameplay, you could make a toy item named "bundle" instead, and take 10 stoke to make 1 "bundle", and the reverse.  As long as you don't add the toy type to the entity raw, then you won't have bundles showing up when you produce trade goods.  As an added bonus, you should be able to modify the value of the toy, like make it a value of 10 so that it's worth its material cost, and you'll also be able to trade for these from the caravan.  So, instead of getting 4 stones of lignite, you could get 5 "bundles" worth 50 lignite, but each bundle will cost 10x more than a single stone.  The only problem here, is that you can't specify what type of bundle, it'll randomly pick a material type that the caravan brings.

Anyways, once you get away from the coin idea, there's a lot of bundling options.

[rynait]

Hello,

as i said earlier dangnabbit...  this is because I knew this is gonna be more complicated and urist-time consuming! 

but  nice idea on bundle.  however that suggestion is assuming ten stone is already available to be consumed. I was thinking along this line... 

oh here is a lone granite stone smash-chop-blend ... 1 granite 'whatever'.  oh gee there is 99 granite 'whatever' over there, urist hauls the lone overthere, now there is 100 granite 'whatever'. but like Jal Jay pointed out... coin dont re-stack.

anyone made workshop or mod trick that consolidates items?

Rynait

edit: doh.    Jay, Very drunk urist thought ur Jal

[Jay]

1) As an added bonus, you should be able to modify the value of the toy, like make it a value of 10 so that it's worth its material cost
2) and you'll also be able to trade for these from the caravan.

1) Nope.  Use a tool, not a toy, for that.
2) Nope.  Caravans only have items listed in their entity's raws.

[Girlinhat]

Oh right, we have tools now...

[Interus]

If you really, really, wanted to make it so that you could add items to a stack individually, I think you could drastically increase the number of stacks.  You would need a reaction that specifically takes a reagent that represents a stack of two stones and a seperate stone that is somehow of the same material(not sure if you can save the material used in the first reagent to require it for the second) and produces an item that represents a stack of 3 stones. You would also have to create an item for each stack size.  And there would likely need to be counter reactions that completely disassemble the stack, or just take one stone out.

And then you have to wonder if you want to be able to take 3 stones and make a 3-stack straight from there instead of requiring the second stage.

It seems like it would just take up a ton of space in the reactions list for a workshop, though you could create one specifically for that purpose.  And I think I'd suggest making all but the first step automatic, and perhaps only disassembling 10-stacks, which could be done completely.  That way, you can just tell a dwarf to start a stack, and you get the joy of seeing him start it, grab another boulder, add it, grab another boulder, add it, etc. until he's added 8 boulders to the stack.  If you don't have enough, say you stack all your stones and end up with a bunch of stacks of 10, and one of 6, then the next time you break a stack down, 4 will be taken from it to add to the smallest one.  I also think this method would bug out if you put 2-stack on repeat, even if it adds the other tasks to the list.  The completed tasks would go something like: 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 2, 3, 4, 5... so you'd probably end up with a ton of different sizes when it finished.

[Rochndil]

Good afternoon.

I think this is a very interesting discussion, and I've already gotten a couple of useful ideas from it that I may exploit at some point in the future. I would like to offer a couple of thoughts about stone management, though I may be misinterpreting the motivation for the original question.

There is an existing and well-known method (exploit) to stack infinite quantities of stone on one tile, called the "quantum stockpile." It's not at all hard to implement, and provides a quick and convenient method to clean up all those "extra" rocks left after construction projects.

Personally, I usually just export the stuff! Shortly after embark, I set one dwarf to making stone crafts (R) and let him learn on the job. By the time the first caravan arrives, the skill level is usually decent (if not great) and production is getting up there. I have a second dwarf making mechanisms (R), and those come in handy both as defense tools and relatively high-value trade goods. My goal in each trading session is to unload EVERY piece of worked stone I can cram into the caravan, while not saddling myself with too much useless goods in the process. This has traditionally managed pretty well to keep pace with most excavation projects, or with only a temporary need for a larger/quantum stockpile. Actually, it's not uncommon for me to run OUT of stone!

But the best is new. If you haven't noticed, Toady has added the capability of making barrels (pots) out of stone (and clay too)! You always need a ton of them to store all that extra food/booze, and managing your wood supply to keep them coming could be challenging...but not anymore! Stone barrels FTW! Now all you REALLY need wood for is beds and bins (and you can make bins out of crap metal).

I hope this information is useful to you, and I look forward to continued discussion.

Rochndil, hoping to actually get some modding done this weekend...

[rynait]

Hello,

anyhow, I did think coins was stackable but I was pointed need tax collector to do that and is an eventually future plan.

However last night been thinking about this some and came upon an idea. Not done any mods, beside fudging the existing raws or someone' else mods.  so kind of afraid to start making my own mod.. Oh well here is my idea.

workshop name = Adstingo shop  (Adstingo is latin word for compress or compacting).
allow (for now, only)  stone block  thus exploit using block stockpile.  Not sure which profession to do this.

require 10 blocks (or 1 bin full), to make 1 tesella; this is latin word for stone cube.

then thought to borrow roman coinage system (thus easier to convert when coin system is functional)
assuming Augustian system (here is wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_currency). Keeping it short for my first attempt...

numatically assign one Sesterius equal to one testella; and 4 sesterius makes 1 denarius. so if i create a reaction of 4 testella to 1 "denarius", means i have 40 blocks stored away.

then one Aureus equals to 100 sesterius (or 1000  blocks), which also equal to 25 denarius

 so a reaction of either 4 "denarius" to make one aureus [or 100 Tesella] for one aureus

then looked up latin prefixing...  so would be properly called  tesella (AsTesella), DenaTestella, and CentumTesella [remaing to AureTesella]
so this way we end up with 6 reactions (3 for making and 3 for decomposing.), maybe add 2 more for 100 Testella to 1 AureTestella.

Rynait

Rochndil, that is not an exploit. it is called garbage dumping. does not offer sorting and counting (with exception of Z menu which is even more harder)