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[KaelGotDwarves]

You could just look up Concord on Eve Uni-

Also look up the "concordokken" item.

On the Fountain War:
I'm not going to say I told you so, but - it pretty much happened as predicted. TEST numbers drop. TEST get poor, TEST on verge of imploding, CFC blueball and grind sov, N3/PL get bored of propping up TEST, CFC be CFC and crush their enemies and then suffer a hilarious welp.

On Delve: CFC isn't going to attack Delve right away. They're going to build up infrastructure in Fountain, go "farm" TEST in Delve and play a whole lot of "it's not an invasion" games again, until they or NC. or PL or someone else gets sick of TEST still sitting on that rich Delve moon space and just blitz TEST. PS: I've been hearing reports that Pizza and that PL reject you have in TEST have been stealing all the moon goo while you guys were away in Fountain.

You can't count on NC. to not stab your back, after what Vince Draken did about OTEC. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if CFC started paying more visits to N3 space just to fuck with them.

[Epithemius]

You could just look up Concord on Eve Uni-

Also look up the "concordokken" item.

On the Fountain War:
I'm not going to say I told you so, but - it pretty much happened as predicted. TEST numbers drop. TEST get poor, TEST on verge of imploding, CFC blueball and grind sov, N3/PL get bored of propping up TEST, CFC be CFC and crush their enemies and then suffer a hilarious welp.

On Delve: CFC isn't going to attack Delve right away. They're going to build up infrastructure in Fountain, go "farm" TEST in Delve and play a whole lot of "it's not an invasion" games again, until they or NC. or PL or someone else gets sick of TEST still sitting on that rich Delve moon space and just blitz TEST. PS: I've been hearing reports that Pizza and that PL reject you have in TEST have been stealing all the moon goo while you guys were away in Fountain.

You can't count on NC. to not stab your back, after what Vince Draken did about OTEC. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if CFC started paying more visits to N3 space just to fuck with them.

True enough, however, if we had taken 4-EP (we had it on final armor timer twice, the CFC was forced to burn several spies in order to prevent it happening, and it was close even with that), this war would have ended with Cloud Ring burning. It came very close, and this war is unique due to that fact. I'd have to disagree with the imploding part, if we were ever close to imploding, it was during the period of instability with the CEO switches and the HBC. We're rehauling leadership and restructuring things, most importantly, firing and replacing Beffah (which should have happened a year ago). PIZZA have taken moons, yeah, but this is pretty standard fare for them. They've done it every time that we move away from our space for an extended period of time, just like how Black Legion and 401K cleared out all of the northern R64s. Anyways, Test will go on, but I'll bet we'll be seeing a war in the North in December, I've heard rumblings of PL and N3 looking to get things into motion.

EDIT: to touch on the NCdot part, it's a definite possibility, but the thing with Delve/Querious/Period basis is, you either have to hold all three of the regions or be on good terms with the other holders of the regions. NCdot already control over 150 systems, and I really doubt they're interested in taking another 100-150. They already hold most of the East under Northern Associates. And if the CFC wants to start a war with a PL-backed drone regions, that's a hilariously bad tactical mistake. The CFC doesn't attack coalitions, they only attack coalitions of emergency and lone alliances.

[Tilla]

You are too cute Epithemius. From the Goon perspective, there was really not a single point in this war where it was close to going the other way.

[Epithemius]

You are too cute Epithemius. From the Goon perspective, there was really not a single point in this war where it was close to going the other way.

That's funny, I'm pretty sure the fact that The Mittani had to come in for personal damage control after invoking the rage of the one and only Grath Telkin begs to differ. Seriously, this is one of the only wars in the past two years where the opponent didn't just curl up and die after two weeks, and could have realistically (and very nearly) went either way.

[MoLAoS]

The reason I was asking about CONCORD is because out there in the great internet wastes there are people committed to doing impossible things in games. Specifically a certain 20k strong group of them. I figured it might be fun to declare war on CONCORD and blockade 10 or so major high sec systems for a week or so which I thought might be possible if everyone ran 1-3 multies as well since that would be around 60k organized ships. But if the largest accomplishment is just beating on the Goons or PL or something they wouldn't be interested. The spin up time to run 3k Titans is just too long to beat up a few goons. Probably take 2 years of coordinated activity plus CCP might not be down for an invasion of mathcrafting obsessives on that scale.

[Dakorma]

The reason I was asking about CONCORD is because out there in the great internet wastes there are people committed to doing impossible things in games. Specifically a certain 20k strong group of them. I figured it might be fun to declare war on CONCORD and blockade 10 or so major high sec systems for a week or so which I thought might be possible if everyone ran 1-3 multies as well since that would be around 60k organized ships. But if the largest accomplishment is just beating on the Goons or PL or something they wouldn't be interested. The spin up time to run 3k Titans is just too long to beat up a few goons. Probably take 2 years of coordinated activity plus CCP might not be down for an invasion of mathcrafting obsessives on that scale.

I think they'd take it quite fondly as earning the money for 2K titans would take obscenely long from a starting character, not even counting the 2 year training time for a competent combat titan pilot.

Even disregarding that, there's a group of people who do that on a regular basis within EVE already. It's called BURN JITA, and HULKAGEDDON. Where masses of people go into high sec and just kill anything in sight, using any methods. Both are funded by the Goons.

[MoLAoS]

The reason I was asking about CONCORD is because out there in the great internet wastes there are people committed to doing impossible things in games. Specifically a certain 20k strong group of them. I figured it might be fun to declare war on CONCORD and blockade 10 or so major high sec systems for a week or so which I thought might be possible if everyone ran 1-3 multies as well since that would be around 60k organized ships. But if the largest accomplishment is just beating on the Goons or PL or something they wouldn't be interested. The spin up time to run 3k Titans is just too long to beat up a few goons. Probably take 2 years of coordinated activity plus CCP might not be down for an invasion of mathcrafting obsessives on that scale.

I think they'd take it quite fondly as earning the money for 2K titans would take obscenely long from a starting character, not even counting the 2 year training time for a competent combat titan pilot.

Even disregarding that, there's a group of people who do that on a regular basis within EVE already. It's called BURN JITA, and HULKAGEDDON. Where masses of people go into high sec and just kill anything in sight, using any methods. Both are funded by the Goons.

I am aware of Burn Jita because I keep as much track of EvE as any non-player reasonably might. But that's not really the scale I was considering. I mentioned 60k ships and I doubt Burn JITA had that many sustained fleets. Based on the 4k or so estimate of high fleet cap I was thinking more of flooding the top 15 systems with 4k fleets. Of course you can't actually load titans into HiSec. Not sure about dreadnaughts.

And I'm not sure how the CONCORD numbers work out. For instance I don't know how fast CONCORD could respond to a split second influx of 4000 ships into 15 top pop HiSec systems. And if they could put such an attack down in less than 4 hours that wouldn't really be worth doing.

I doubt there are enough players in any place you could deploy Titans and Naughts and SupCars to be worth sieging.

[Tilla]

You are too cute Epithemius. From the Goon perspective, there was really not a single point in this war where it was close to going the other way.

That's funny, I'm pretty sure the fact that The Mittani had to come in for personal damage control after invoking the rage of the one and only Grath Telkin begs to differ. Seriously, this is one of the only wars in the past two years where the opponent didn't just curl up and die after two weeks, and could have realistically (and very nearly) went either way.

What about Grath Telkin? He's a nobody and all we did was laugh at him when he got SOOO mad at the Revenant loss. I'm wondering what rage we invoked exactly?

[Dakorma]

The reason I was asking about CONCORD is because out there in the great internet wastes there are people committed to doing impossible things in games. Specifically a certain 20k strong group of them. I figured it might be fun to declare war on CONCORD and blockade 10 or so major high sec systems for a week or so which I thought might be possible if everyone ran 1-3 multies as well since that would be around 60k organized ships. But if the largest accomplishment is just beating on the Goons or PL or something they wouldn't be interested. The spin up time to run 3k Titans is just too long to beat up a few goons. Probably take 2 years of coordinated activity plus CCP might not be down for an invasion of mathcrafting obsessives on that scale.

I think they'd take it quite fondly as earning the money for 2K titans would take obscenely long from a starting character, not even counting the 2 year training time for a competent combat titan pilot.

Even disregarding that, there's a group of people who do that on a regular basis within EVE already. It's called BURN JITA, and HULKAGEDDON. Where masses of people go into high sec and just kill anything in sight, using any methods. Both are funded by the Goons.

I am aware of Burn Jita because I keep as much track of EvE as any non-player reasonably might. But that's not really the scale I was considering. I mentioned 60k ships and I doubt Burn JITA had that many sustained fleets. Based on the 4k or so estimate of high fleet cap I was thinking more of flooding the top 15 systems with 4k fleets. Of course you can't actually load titans into HiSec. Not sure about dreadnaughts.

And I'm not sure how the CONCORD numbers work out. For instance I don't know how fast CONCORD could respond to a split second influx of 4000 ships into 15 top pop HiSec systems. And if they could put such an attack down in less than 4 hours that wouldn't really be worth doing.

I doubt there are enough players in any place you could deploy Titans and Naughts and SupCars to be worth sieging.

Dreadnaughts can't go through gates so they can't get to high sec either.

[MoLAoS]

The reason I was asking about CONCORD is because out there in the great internet wastes there are people committed to doing impossible things in games. Specifically a certain 20k strong group of them. I figured it might be fun to declare war on CONCORD and blockade 10 or so major high sec systems for a week or so which I thought might be possible if everyone ran 1-3 multies as well since that would be around 60k organized ships. But if the largest accomplishment is just beating on the Goons or PL or something they wouldn't be interested. The spin up time to run 3k Titans is just too long to beat up a few goons. Probably take 2 years of coordinated activity plus CCP might not be down for an invasion of mathcrafting obsessives on that scale.

I think they'd take it quite fondly as earning the money for 2K titans would take obscenely long from a starting character, not even counting the 2 year training time for a competent combat titan pilot.

Even disregarding that, there's a group of people who do that on a regular basis within EVE already. It's called BURN JITA, and HULKAGEDDON. Where masses of people go into high sec and just kill anything in sight, using any methods. Both are funded by the Goons.

I am aware of Burn Jita because I keep as much track of EvE as any non-player reasonably might. But that's not really the scale I was considering. I mentioned 60k ships and I doubt Burn JITA had that many sustained fleets. Based on the 4k or so estimate of high fleet cap I was thinking more of flooding the top 15 systems with 4k fleets. Of course you can't actually load titans into HiSec. Not sure about dreadnaughts.

And I'm not sure how the CONCORD numbers work out. For instance I don't know how fast CONCORD could respond to a split second influx of 4000 ships into 15 top pop HiSec systems. And if they could put such an attack down in less than 4 hours that wouldn't really be worth doing.

I doubt there are enough players in any place you could deploy Titans and Naughts and SupCars to be worth sieging.

Dreadnaughts can't go through gates so they can't get to high sec either.

Bah that sucks. EvE sandbox fake sandbox... Ah well.

[Dakorma]

The reason I was asking about CONCORD is because out there in the great internet wastes there are people committed to doing impossible things in games. Specifically a certain 20k strong group of them. I figured it might be fun to declare war on CONCORD and blockade 10 or so major high sec systems for a week or so which I thought might be possible if everyone ran 1-3 multies as well since that would be around 60k organized ships. But if the largest accomplishment is just beating on the Goons or PL or something they wouldn't be interested. The spin up time to run 3k Titans is just too long to beat up a few goons. Probably take 2 years of coordinated activity plus CCP might not be down for an invasion of mathcrafting obsessives on that scale.

I think they'd take it quite fondly as earning the money for 2K titans would take obscenely long from a starting character, not even counting the 2 year training time for a competent combat titan pilot.

Even disregarding that, there's a group of people who do that on a regular basis within EVE already. It's called BURN JITA, and HULKAGEDDON. Where masses of people go into high sec and just kill anything in sight, using any methods. Both are funded by the Goons.

I am aware of Burn Jita because I keep as much track of EvE as any non-player reasonably might. But that's not really the scale I was considering. I mentioned 60k ships and I doubt Burn JITA had that many sustained fleets. Based on the 4k or so estimate of high fleet cap I was thinking more of flooding the top 15 systems with 4k fleets. Of course you can't actually load titans into HiSec. Not sure about dreadnaughts.

And I'm not sure how the CONCORD numbers work out. For instance I don't know how fast CONCORD could respond to a split second influx of 4000 ships into 15 top pop HiSec systems. And if they could put such an attack down in less than 4 hours that wouldn't really be worth doing.

I doubt there are enough players in any place you could deploy Titans and Naughts and SupCars to be worth sieging.

Dreadnaughts can't go through gates so they can't get to high sec either.

Bah that sucks. EvE sandbox fake sandbox... Ah well.

Players can put up cynojammers too. So it's not totally a cop out.

Also goons didn't win the fights, but they won the war. They also sacrificed roughly the profit of 30 moons for the next 4 months to do it.

Goons won this war because of diplomacy. Unless you happen to be a goon diplo or spai, in which case, LOL you(r department) attempted to bribe the reincarnation of Sir Molles E-penis fantasies.  You didn't contribute towards winning this war.

In any case, it took 4 robberies, a BoBing, numerous traitors, a station egg dying, dozens of burned spais, bribery, the loss of 30 moons of profit, for the next 4 months(a trillion isk is estimated to be roughly 100 times one R64 class moons profit per month, 30*4 is roughly 120, given that BL. are still working with you, you've paid up again. Elo said in private comms that the payout initially was 500 billion, then 600 billion for the next month. Saying 30 moons of the next 4 months is the easiest estimate I can make for lost profit making up for the investment without making it sound too extreme and still getting my point across. By the way fountain only has 24 R64s, I know I scanned them myself after the patch.) to beat us.

[Tilla]

Words

Whatever you have to tell yourself to live with the loss. Goons won much more of the battles than lost and you know it, even before NC. and PL left. The roughest spot was at J5A for sure but it didn't last. Meanwhile those are moons TEST doesn't have (and we already have all our previous moons). While Pizza is robbing TEST blind in Delve, jumpfreighters are running off with their cargos, directors are saying 'fuck this' and taking off with everything they can fit in a ship.

[ScriptWolf]

I'm sorry but you make winning through Diplomacy sound like a weak thing ? it would be a damn lot harder to win through manipulation of other things in the universe rather then hur dur more bodies for the meat grinder. I think that winning through Diplomacy is a even greater skill because all it takes is for one person to say no and that's it end of story.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Yeah... there was no point in this war where anyone one outside TEST + friends thought TEST had a chance of winning. TEST might have had a chance early on with PL and all of N3 and the combined might of their supercapital fleet, but there is no point in time where PL/N3 would field all their supers without subcap superiority - and goons were too smart to let that happen.

PL and NC. know better than to fight CFC head on, they only fight CFC through proxy wars and battles where they can jump on top of CFC capitals. For this purpose TEST proves a good subcap meatshield, but notice that when the TEST participation and leadership started falling apart, PL and most of N3 started giving bullshit excuses about how they couldn't help in Fountain. At your "last stand", PL didn't show at all, and N3 had an entire bombing fleet taken out by one goon multiboxing 8 bombers, and N3's battleship fleet got into system, fought a bit with some gatecampers, and then left as the battle was going south.

NC./PL aren't your friends. That dude that just ran off with the 350bil in TEST JF/logistics contracts? He's now in PL. Also before and during the Fountain war, a lot of HBC/TEST's competent officers and FCs fled for PL.

[KaelGotDwarves]

By the way fountain only has 24 R64s, I know I scanned them myself after the patch.)

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Fountain/moons

24? You missed a few. A lot. 

Also, those are the publicly known ones. Quite a bit more than 24.