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[KaelGotDwarves]

Do you have any idea how fitting, boosting, and skills in Eve work?

Keal, honestly you're being a rude jerk. And to be lashing out like you're doing when you've got an image on your screen that you're quoting back at us that contradicts what you're saying, and then be accusing us of not having a clue...I think I'm done here.

My advice is to edit your post before somebody reports you for being an asshole.

From what I've heard, the in-game EHP calculation is based only on your weakest resist. EFT and Pyfa on the other hand use proper damage profiles, omnidamage (25% of each type) by default, and you can set whatever else you like and see how that affects it.

At the end of the day, the EFT/Pyfa number is actually more accurate if you know what you're up against, the in-game number is just a worst-case scenario.

Messed up on the screenshot (It was 6 am so my badger maybe I'm right, your numbers didn't update), but a correct asshole about EHP. I could say don't call me an asshole for pointing out you don't understand how EHP works and displays in game vs actual performance. 10-20% resist difference is your problem. EFT victory.

Being a but off topic from the tech 3s now.

Does anyone know how test are doing ? Or is anyone from here in Test alliance ? I'm quite interested in knowing how the war is going from their side.

www.themittani.com is probably the best place for detailed reports (From a goon website but some of their writers are TEST) Much better balance than evenews24.com... ugh. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Fountain is where you can see how the war is going. CONDI = CFC. They've established a beachhead in multiple systems in Fountain.

Otherwise you have to wade through a mountain of raw spewage and idiot propaganda being slung back and forth on the internet.

PL, BBC, and a bunch of other alliances jumped onboard with TEST to shoot goons. It's not a real coalition as everyone has their own motivations, and it remains to be seen which side will outlast the other. As PL and Black Legion aren't forming up to save Fountain, they're forming up just to shoot CFC and goons. As you may recall just over a week ago they were all shooting TEST out of boredom.

[dragonshardz]

...activate your resist modules and the fitting numbers will update.

Actually, last I checked the fitting window won't update when you turn mods on in space.

E: I'm also going to reiterate that EVE isn't a game of straight upgrades. A T3 isn't necessarily better than a BC or BS, but it is by design more versatile. You also can't fit for EHP tank and SIG tank; the point of a T3 is that it does either one equally well. I know you're going for a PvE fit but there's no reason to not take cues from PvP fits. You really shouldn't be sitting still in space or fitting a wimpy tank on a T3, anyway.

E2: I've no idea what your skills are, but I'm assuming the bare minimum just to prove a point. If you'd care to share an API code that just has your skills/attribs/implants, then that'd be even better.

Spoiler: Here is Kael's fit with hardeners and AB off: (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: And the same fit, with the same skills, with the hardeners and AB on. HAMs for good measure. (click to show/hide)

At a guess, seeing the similar results with the hardeners on, I'd wager you're using a T1 tank and have literally just barely the requirements to sit in a Tengu hull.

[Rince Wind]

I think, while his shield hardeners were on, the Damage Control wasn't. That would explain the gap betwenn 87 and 99k EHP. (and maybe some skills)

One thing that is very important when comparing EFT and Eve numbers is, that EFT calculates EHP based on the average resist, while the ingame numbers are calculated based on the lowest resist. So of course EFT showes higher numbers (but I think you can adjust for different damage profiles and look at it that way.).


Kael, you can't really assume everyone has an alt, because even if all your leadership skills are at 5, you won't get any bonus unless there is someone else in fleet.


Other Topic: I'd love to fly in CFCs Techfleet. I still have a Fleet Pest sitting around collecting dust because I have no idea what to do with it.

[LordBucket]

Messed up on the screenshot (It was 6 am so my badger maybe I'm right, your numbers didn't update), but a correct asshole about EHP. I could say don't call me an asshole for pointing out you don't understand how EHP works and displays in game vs actual performance. 10-20% resist difference is your problem. EFT victory.

You're changing your story, dude. Here's what you said:

1. Your screenshot shows your stats without ACTIVATED MODULES, like your afterburner (notice your speed) and defensive modules (notice your resists). DERP.

The screenshot shows activated modules, and yes...the resists are updated.

I think, while his shield hardeners were on, the Damage Control wasn't.

Yes, looks like I missed the damage control. See...I can admit that, because I haven't spent the past several posts insulting everyone and calling them idiots.

Damage Control wasn't. That would explain the gap between 87 and 99k EHP. (and maybe some skills)

That's not enough to explain everything we're seeing though. For example, why is EFT reporting 356/second shield regen for his fit? Is that from a shield transporter? Or is EFT making up some sort of inferred effective regeneration based on something? I notice that when dragonshardz plugged it in, it looks like EFT is reporting different regeneration  rates based on whether or not hardeners are active. 46.6/sec with them off vs 119/sec with them on. Sounds to me like EFT is using the same words to mean something very different than they do in-game.

Actually, last I checked the fitting window won't update when you turn mods on in space.

They changed it a few years ago.

Before:


After:

[Rince Wind]

Are you sure 350 is the recharge rate? Could be the sustained DPS tank, sounds reasonable with high resists and a recharge rate of about 40.

[maanahr]

One of the differences is that EFT calculates EHP based on the damage type you select, while the fitting screen uses whatever resist is lowest. Another huge difference between tanks in PvP and PvE is that in PvP you'll be overheating those hardeners, but in PvE you generally shouldn't.

[Comp112]

In EFT, it also shows your DPS tank, with the default set to omni resist.

So in my SS, I could tank 600+ DPS.

[Rince Wind]

600 DPS Tank should be more than enough in such a small ship.

My Vargur has a 800 DPS Tank while the capacitor lasts (2:45min with AB running, 4min without), EFT gives me 270 sustained DPS tank. (I could fit more tank, but it is enough, and I like to have those 3 medslots for propmod and tracking comps/sebos/whatever.)

[KaelGotDwarves]

That's not enough to explain everything we're seeing though. For example, why is EFT reporting 356/second shield regen for his fit? Is that from a shield transporter? Or is EFT making up some sort of inferred effective regeneration based on something? I notice that when dragonshardz plugged it in, it looks like EFT is reporting different regeneration  rates based on whether or not hardeners are active. 46.6/sec with them off vs 119/sec with them on. Sounds to me like EFT is using the same words to mean something very different than they do in-game.

You're still failing to read and understand.

I could say don't call me an asshole for pointing out you don't understand how EHP works and displays in game vs actual performance. 10-20% resist difference is your problem. EFT victory.

Eve client shows your worst resist as EHP. EFT shows your average resist EHP, or you can change it to display based on damage types.

Because resists/EHP is different, you'll be able to tank a different amount of shield regen for different damage types. The Eve client only shows the worst one and lowest EHP.

Let me make it simple- here's the tengu fit with one OGB:


Eve client only shows you the absolute worst EHP you could have. Notice that 153339 EHP with 196 ehp shield/sec is a lot different from 394468 EHP with 490 ehp shield/second. Your Eve client would report 153339 EHP. EFT tells you the average EHP across all damage types on the main screen, since EHP always changes based on damage type.

What this means is, unless you are unlucky to be hit by the one damage type that maxes damage against your resists or you're dumb enough to fly into it, your EHP will always be quite higher than what the Eve client says.

EFT will give you the perfect numbers when you set it up correctly, as shown above.

EDIT: Don't put words in my mouth, Lord Bucket, I never called anyone an idiot. I said you don't know what you're talking about, and it's obvious that you don't know how the EHP screen works - and you called me an asshole for pointing it out. I even said I messed up because I saw the unactivated damage control and I assumed that the other modules were unactivated.

Just admit when you're wrong or don't understand. Don't attack people for pointing out that it isn't right.

[Imofexios]

Ohh makes me want to get back to EVE

[motorbitch]

lets stop discussing this  fit. its supposed to be a pvp fit, but it doesnt even have a point (do you get now why its pointless?)
active hardeners, no mwd, no ewar, no dict null, no nothing. its just a stupid eft warrior fit that will fail utterly if you ever take it out of highsec.

[Rince Wind]

It is a fleet ship, others will do the pointing.

Edit: Killmail of such a Tengu from a fleetfight:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17992029

[zmc]

what was Toady doing at CCP?

[ScriptWolf]

what is TESTS problem ? last 4 fleets i have been in they have hidden inside PoS for hours on end or even Logged off !!!! this is shameful display of the alliance

[LordBucket]

You're still failing to read and understand.

Eve client shows your worst resist as EHP. EFT shows your average resist EHP,
or you can change it to display based on damage types.

Your Eve client would report 153339 EHP. EFT tells you the average EHP across all damage types on the main screen

Kael...I was the first person in this conversation to point out that EFT gives different numbers than the game. That was the #1 complaint I had about your fitting post in the first place. Here is the quote:

1) Looking at the numbers, this is obviously a case of EFT giving vastly different results than the game does.

It doesn't make sense for you to respond to me saying that EFT gives different results than the game...by saying that I don't understand that the Eve client and EFT give different results.

Just admit when you're wrong or don't understand.

What exactly are you accusing me of not understanding? I posted in-game numbers assuming a single ship, and you responded with EFT numbers assuming a fleet of all-skills-at-5 characters, then pointed out that your numbers were bigger. Which might be true, but it's not a useful comparison. And now, you appear to be going into great detail about the difference in how EFT represents numbers and insisting that I don't understand that...when that was the very first thing I said in response to your fit.