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[Silfurdreki]

Living in wormholes:

Pros

• Great ISK (50-150 MISK per day, depending on sites spawned.)
• Fun, independent gameplay

Cons

• POS logistics (144000 m³ of fuel per 30 days to fuel one large POS)
• Everything else logistics (need to get ammo and any other consumables in on a regular basis, most ISK income is in the form of loot that needs to be hauled to empire)

Things that can be both

• No local
• completely lawless space
• No permanent routes of travel anywhere

The biggest annoyance with W-space is easily the logistics. C3 and above wormholes never have static high-sec WH's which forces all fuel hauling to go through low-sec, unless you get lucky with a high-sec hole. Second annoyance is living out of a POS, or several. POSes are inherently insecure and cramped, the hangar functions like a limited-volume corp-hangar and the ship maintenance array is just a big storage for ships, with no way to specify what ships belong to who (except for an honour system).

It works pretty well for a small group of people (I'd say below ten, if they are coordinating outside of the game), but you are pretty vulnerable to larger corps coming in and throwing you out.

You haven't experienced annoyance in Eve until you've been sitting in a WH, only getting Solitude/null/W-space WH's for a week straight, while your loot piles up and your fuel runs out.

[Rince Wind]

Also, who of those who want to live in a WH can solo a c3? Even the c2 sites yesterday took Lasik and Argoms (in Myrmidon and Drake) a while, and Argoms had to warp out in between. If you can't solo, you need to have company, and if no one decides to log in, you are stuck (and can't even spin your ship properly ).
And again: We have no means to throw someone out of a WH.

[Comp112]

I know for a fact I can solo a C2 in my drake, and I am pretty sure Thrawn can as well. I know lasik can if he fits a bit differently. Argoms just needs to work up his skills, then he can solo a C2 as well.

[Rince Wind]

Yes, that is why I would say to start with a c1 or a c2. And tbh, i didn't think about you or Thrawn, because you can fly BS anyway. If you can solo lvl 4s easiliy, c1 or c2s are not problem. More about Erisu (who is also in a timezone with less activity), Argoms, Lasik and other younger characters.
And everybody also needs to be aware of the constraints. Like, you can't just leave if there is no one else, because you would never finde the hole again. (That's why alt chars that can do basic scanning are very useful in a WH.)
Others have been posted above. And there are always missions available, but not always sites in a WH.

I'd say consider both offers, the one with the WH alliance (though I would be happy to be OUT of an alliance for a while), and the one with the shared WH.

[Fikes]

Living in wormholes:

Pros

• Great ISK (50-150 MISK per day, depending on sites spawned.)
• Fun, independent gameplay

Maybe I just suck at making money, but 50-150m Isk a day seems way too high to me.

Yesterday the C2 we were in had a huge build up of sites. A HUGE build up. I think at least 16 sleeper sites. We pulled in 244m in Salvage.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is every day some number of sites are distributed between all the WHs. Your WH might get none, or it might get 4. The reason that WH had so many was because no one had done them in a while. If that is the case yesterday's WH might only have 2 sites today... no where near 50m.

That doesn't include mining belts, but keep in mind that as soon as someone finds an belt and hits "warp to" the timer is ticking on that belt and it will de-spawn. They aren't like normal belts where you can mine them out over a couple of days.

When HFS was in a WH I did not make that much money, no where near what I am making now outside of the WH. For me best way to make money from WHs is to live outside of them and find new ones every day.

As for the "fun, independent play" I can't argue with the fact that there is a certain pride in being a WH corp and a feeling that every day might be an adventure. But most days you end up just staring at the force field, wishing the high-sec exit was closer to one of your agents.

In unrelated news, I built my Incursion Tempest last night and hope to do one today. The Vahalla channel was really helpful in fine tuning my build and explaining the process of getting into an Incursion.

[Aavak]

As for the "fun, independent play" I can't argue with the fact that there is a certain pride in being a WH corp and a feeling that every day might be an adventure. But most days you end up just staring at the force field, wishing the high-sec exit was closer to one of your agents.

This is unfortunately a very common situation to be in. WH's can be fantastic fun, but they involve a lot of work to get to the fun sometimes, and at least in my experience, sites found in your own WH are so infrequent as to not be worth counting in your income calculations. Gravsites and Ladar sites are about the only things we'd work on in our home system. We'd just let the combat sites build up over weeks, a sort of 'rainy day' stash of sites--but often others would come in and run them, and that was fine, we mostly ran sites in other people's WHs ourselves lol.

It's important to learn how to manipulate WH's though, in our C4 we got pretty proficient at finding a WH, deciding if we wanted it or not, and if not, forcing it to close so a new one would spawn. Some days we'd cycle through dozens of WH's in order to find a couple that had sites we wanted to run, or people we wanted to fight.

[forsaken1111]

I'd be all for living in a WH again. Dragonshardz, I'd be interested in joining.

[Rince Wind]

got a disconnect and will try to get back in.

[Silfurdreki]

Maybe I just suck at making money, but 50-150m Isk a day seems way too high to me.

Yesterday the C2 we were in had a huge build up of sites. A HUGE build up. I think at least 16 sleeper sites. We pulled in 244m in Salvage.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is every day some number of sites are distributed between all the WHs. Your WH might get none, or it might get 4. The reason that WH had so many was because no one had done them in a while. If that is the case yesterday's WH might only have 2 sites today... no where near 50m.

Sorry, I should have specified, that is for the WH I'm living in, a C3. We pull roughly 15 million in sleeper tags per site, and an average of 2.5 nanoribbons per anomaly. That makes two anomalies for 50 million. Of course, it happens at times that we don't get anything, but it also happens that we get more anomalies/signatures than that. We're also producing nano-factories via PI, which gives extra income.

As for the "fun, independent play" I can't argue with the fact that there is a certain pride in being a WH corp and a feeling that every day might be an adventure. But most days you end up just staring at the force field, wishing the high-sec exit was closer to one of your agents.

This is unfortunately a very common situation to be in. WH's can be fantastic fun, but they involve a lot of work to get to the fun sometimes, and at least in my experience, sites found in your own WH are so infrequent as to not be worth counting in your income calculations. Gravsites and Ladar sites are about the only things we'd work on in our home system. We'd just let the combat sites build up over weeks, a sort of 'rainy day' stash of sites--but often others would come in and run them, and that was fine, we mostly ran sites in other people's WHs ourselves lol.

It's important to learn how to manipulate WH's though, in our C4 we got pretty proficient at finding a WH, deciding if we wanted it or not, and if not, forcing it to close so a new one would spawn. Some days we'd cycle through dozens of WH's in order to find a couple that had sites we wanted to run, or people we wanted to fight.

I'd also agree with this, I think WH's are better for sparse playing. If you're playing several hours a day, you'll soon run out of stuff to do, unless you cycle WH's, as noted above. The workload is also fairly high, you really need to maintain stuff, you can't just stop playing for a month if you're burnt out on Eve. The POS will go down without fuel and you'll most likely lose everything in it.

[Comp112]

We've been doing some talking in game, and came to a few conclusions. One, we need more activate directors. There are not enough on, and we are not getting anything done.

Two, there are a few of us who decided we want to live in a WH, if we cant manage to get any active directors, we will move to the old corp, HFS. If you don't want to live in the WH, fine, you don't have to. Nobody is forcing anything on anybody.

Third thing, a PoS. If we live in a WH, we will need one, but that's an expensive venture. I am wondering if the people who previously wanted a PoS would be fine with living in a WH, or if they want it in high sec? This will decide what may happen.

[forsaken1111]

As I see it, we have two options as far as wormholes go.

First, we could find a wormhole and live inside it. This has the convenience of being in the wormhole, obviously. All we'd need to do each day is scan down new sites and exhaust them at our leisure. The downside is twofold: Logistics of running a POS in a wormhole are pretty complex, though a bit simpler with the fuel block system, and most loot from sites must be hauled back to empire space to liquidate which can be difficult depending on where the exit is that day.. The second downside is that sites may not respawn when used, and that others may wander in and activate or use up the sites that are there.

Our second option is to set up a home base somewhere in normal space and scan surrounding systems each day for wormholes to exploit. This has the advantage of simplified logistics and loot sale as we'd be based out of normal space (hisec or lowsec) but we wouldn't have easy access to wormholes and may have to travel a while to find and enter new ones.

[LordBucket]

Note that these re not permanent commitments. You could try living in a wormhole for a week to see if you like it. Stations can be dismantled.

[sluissa]

Already falling apart. At least it won't make it hard for me to decide whether I resub at the end of my time.

[Comp112]

Already falling apart. At least it won't make it hard for me to decide whether I resub at the end of my time.

And who are you in game again?

[Aavak]

I spent a while chatting with Ten and Pierre today about the ins and outs of running a PoS in a WH. They both seem really enthusiastic about it, and I can see no reason not to encourage such enthusiasm. I'm not sure who has been involved in the discussion regarding setting up a PoS in a WH, so I can't speak for the others who've donated, but any funds which I've contributed were done so without the expectation that I'd be getting much out of a PoS regardless. So it doesn't make any difference to me where the PoS is set up

Since the issues earlier, I've been hesitant of handing out any more permissions within the corp without there being a reason behind it, but creating another director (or two) to specifically manage the WH operation seems to make perfect sense to me. Or simply enabling specific PoS related permissions, though I think having at least one Director who manages the WH operations would be a wise move, as it allows them to react to unforeseen circumstances.

Despite living in a WH being one of the most fun things I've done in Eve, I wont be able to join at this time myself, as I can't be certain I'll be able to log on at the right times (and time's a little tight right now regardless) however, I may hop in on the weekends and take frequent day or two day vacations to our beautiful wormhole holiday fortress. However, I expect only the finest beds and armour stands in my personal quarters... and don't even think about lava traps, my Legion is immune!