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Author Topic: Eve Online  (Read 275067 times)

Poltifar

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #870 on: February 13, 2013, 12:37:03 pm »

I even do L3s with a cruiser (Navy Caracal) relatively easily. Bigger ships are not necessarily always better.

Anyways, have any solid plans for a mining trip or a low-sec roam or something materialized?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 12:40:51 pm by Poltifar »
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<@Poltifar> yeah i've played life for almost 23 years
<@Poltifar> i specced myself into a corner, i should just reroll
<@Akroma> eh
<@Akroma> just play the minigames until your subscription runs out

Imofexios

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #871 on: February 13, 2013, 12:48:20 pm »

Missile boats are best in doing missions. Just get on range and fire it away.
Have they improved the countermeasures against missiles yet?
Been playing Minnie side with AC specialisation and allways felt theyr somewhat underdogs on bigger ships.
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Rince Wind

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #872 on: February 13, 2013, 06:36:39 pm »

Missile boats are best in doing missions. Just get on range and fire it away.
Have they improved the countermeasures against missiles yet?
Been playing Minnie side with AC specialisation and allways felt theyr somewhat underdogs on bigger ships.

I like my autocannons. :D
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sluissa

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #873 on: February 13, 2013, 08:14:12 pm »

I've been enjoying the hybrid blasters. A Catalyst armed with 8 of them and a micro warp drive can dart through a cloud of rats, take out 1-3 in a pass and dart out of range before it takes too much damage. No idea how it does outside of rats or missions, but it's certainly fun and a unique way of playing other than just "close to optimal range, target, fire."
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LordBucket

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #874 on: February 13, 2013, 09:33:04 pm »

Quote
missiles

Cons
1) Damage over time is below average compared to certain other weapons. If you want to feel powerful and overwhelm opponents with force, or quickly blitz through missions, missiles aren't a great choice.

2) Firing rate is terribly slow. Default firing rate on heavy missiles, for example, s 1 shot every 15 seconds. Even with skills and upgrades it's difficult to get that much below 1 shot every ten seconds.

3) The missiles themselves are slow. When you fire, it's routinely 5-10 seconds before they reach their target.

4) Because of 2+3, there are often periods of additional downtime where you're not doing any damage at all. For example, let's say you have have 2 missiles locked on a target at 10 seconds range and because the battle has been going on for a while they're not synchronized in their firing. Instead of two missiles beign fired together on every tenth second, one missile is being fired every fifth second. When one missile destroys the target, the other missile hs invested 5 seconds into flight time. That missile is lost and does no damage, and you then have to wait for the launcher cooldown to expire, lock onto a new target, and then fire a new missile which then has a new flight time. Often this results in 15+ second windows where a launcher is doing no damage at all.

5) There are significant blast radius penalties when firing on smaller craft than the size class of the missile. For example, a medium ship sized missile firing on  frigate will do very little damage. Doing L2 missions in my drake I've had to downgrade from heavy to light missiles, because even with over a million points in missile skills, I just wasn't doing enough damage against frigates.


Pros
1) They can do any damage type and it's easy to carry all four types and reload whichever type of missile you need on the fly.

2) They have good range. Even my light missiles that I can put on a frigate are effective at 35km.

3) They don't miss, and are equally effective regardless of range. They completely ignore all tracking speed, angular velocity issues, accuracy falloff issues. However, this ties into #1 above and #5 under cons: if you, for example, are using heavy energy weapons against frigates, generally at close range you simply can't hit them, but at long range because angular velocity is minimal, you can hit them just fine and you're using a heavy class weapon against a light target and can easily one-shot it. Whereas with missiles you always hit it but the blast radius penalty applies regardless of range.

4) There do exist "friend or foe" missiles that can be fired even with no targets tracked, thus allowing you to continue to fight while jammed.

5) While their overall damage over time is low, they tend to have big alpha strikes. With 7 heavy missiles you might only be doing 100 dps overall, but if you want you can deliver that damage so that 1500 arrives all at the same exact instant. This can make it more difficult for a target to regen/repair. For example, compared to a faster weapon doing the same 100 dps, but actually doing 100 damage every second, a target will be able to start recharging/repair after the first second, meaning that by the time each weapon type has done it's 1500 damage, the target being fired on by missiles has no zero recharge/repair, whereas the target being fired on by the faster weapon has had 14 seconds of repair/recharge time.

Too long, didn't read:

Missiles are convenient and easier to use than most other weapons, but they're slow.

Aavak

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #875 on: February 13, 2013, 10:18:31 pm »

I even do L3s with a cruiser (Navy Caracal) relatively easily. Bigger ships are not necessarily always better.

Anyways, have any solid plans for a mining trip or a low-sec roam or something materialized?

We're running some missions tonight, may do some mining if people are interested in it, but I think the day old players would like a little bit more isk behind them before we jump into a low-sec roam. But there's definite interest, so probably within the next few days, maybe the weekend. I would recommend those who come, run with the assumption whatever ship they take wont be coming back lol, and then if it does, that's a bonus, but if it doesn't, you'll likely have set aside enough money to cover it if that was your main missions ship.

Tyg13

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #876 on: February 13, 2013, 10:54:06 pm »

Me (Lasik en Chalune) and BuriBuriZaemon (Erisu) were running a gig for a little bit yesterday with pyroxeres. He's got a Venture, and he'd sit in system while I hauled the ore back and forth with my Iteron. We made about 1mil an hour, but I'd be very much interested in something a bit more profitable. I don't have much by way of mining ships, though my Catalyst could be fitted with 8 mining lasers if I wanted, but I do have an Iteron for hauling. Admittedly, I'm a bit of a noob, but I'm sure I could help in some capacity. Basically, if there's any Bay12 mining op going on, I'd be more than glad to help out.
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sluissa

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #877 on: February 13, 2013, 11:04:13 pm »

Destroyer mining is usually too much hassle to do. You have to be almost constantly dragging ore to an external can because the cargo bay on destroyers is so small. Grab yourself a Venture. It's cheap and really is a great mining ship before you're able to train up to the big stuff. The Venture actually has an ore bay that's bigger than most industrial cargo bays.
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Poltifar

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #878 on: February 13, 2013, 11:05:39 pm »

*stuff about missiles*

I agree. I think that the general consensus is that missiles are good for lazy missioners who prefer minimal thinking during mission grinding over maximal efficiency/speed, but are no way near as good for PvP as turrets.

We're running some missions tonight, may do some mining if people are interested in it, but I think the day old players would like a little bit more isk behind them before we jump into a low-sec roam. But there's definite interest, so probably within the next few days, maybe the weekend. I would recommend those who come, run with the assumption whatever ship they take wont be coming back lol, and then if it does, that's a bonus, but if it doesn't, you'll likely have set aside enough money to cover it if that was your main missions ship.

If you guys roam on Saturday or Sunday, I'll probably be able to come along. But maybe not if its on Thursday or Friday.

I was planning to haul as many ultra-cheap frigates as I could carry, exactly because there's no point in investing too much into a random newbie roam. And also because I've been itching to fly a Griffin and ECM the fuck out of everything. I'll probably just bring as many Griffins as I can. I have a fit designed that costs 1.5mill tops, so its so cheap I can just hand out some to anyone who wants to ECM too.

Which reminds me: Whoever is down there, check for me if there are any Griffins for sale (preferably for not more than 500k), so that I only cart the fittings without the whole frigates too.
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<@Poltifar> yeah i've played life for almost 23 years
<@Poltifar> i specced myself into a corner, i should just reroll
<@Akroma> eh
<@Akroma> just play the minigames until your subscription runs out

LordBucket

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #879 on: February 14, 2013, 02:19:50 am »

Whoever is down there, check for me if there are any Griffins for sale

Cheapest/closest griffins to Ordiun I see are 12 jumps away in Kor-Azor Prime for 597k.



I'd be very much interested in something a bit more profitable. I don't have much by way of mining ships, though my Catalyst could be fitted with 8 mining lasers if I wanted, but I do have an Iteron for hauling.

Try jetcan mining.

Put both ships in the same system, stack your destroyer with as many lasers as it can fit. Go to the belt and target half a dozen different asteroids. Then stagger the mining beams so that there are several seconds between them. You have 8 lasers, so activate one, count to 8, then activte the next, so that there's 8 seconds between each harvest. This prevents loss and miner deactivation from having a full cargo. Once you have some ore in your hold, jettison it and open the cargo container. Then, every time new ore is deposited into your hold, click and drag it into the cargo container in space.

Fit your industrial with a bunch of expanded cargo holds to get its carrying capacity up to 10k or so. Mark the location so you can warp directly to it, and only make hauling trips when you're near the carrying capacity of your industrial.

Cuts down on hauling time tremendously.

Other than that...not sure how many mining upgrades / cpu upgrades you could realistically fit on a destroyer, but it might be worth checking.

ScriptWolf

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #880 on: February 14, 2013, 03:18:25 am »

I should be on tonight providing i don't get dragged out by my girlfriend. also happy to let people us my TS3 server for this to talk on seeing as though is much easier to talk than to type, when im on i will be giving out details on the eve channel in the game but also BuriBuriZaemon (Erisu) and Cernunnos have my details as well so you can ask them.

Erisu is also a admin on my server so while im away he can make any needed channels and what not

Anyway we are doing mining runs right ? also if we need anyone to haul stuff from place to place i have a few of the heavier ships to do this i have basically skilled only in industry.

and another question which has been burning at me im currently skilled as a miner all the way upto piloting the hulk. I not want to go into combat side and some bigger and heavier weapons and ships its not going to take any longer to learn these skills just because i already have alot of mining skills or would it be worth starting a new character ?
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BuriBuriZaemon

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #881 on: February 14, 2013, 03:32:56 am »

and another question which has been burning at me im currently skilled as a miner all the way upto piloting the hulk. I not want to go into combat side and some bigger and heavier weapons and ships its not going to take any longer to learn these skills just because i already have alot of mining skills or would it be worth starting a new character ?

Not sure how viable this is, but what about salvaging the wrecks in combat missions?
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ScriptWolf

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #882 on: February 14, 2013, 03:34:30 am »

and another question which has been burning at me im currently skilled as a miner all the way upto piloting the hulk. I not want to go into combat side and some bigger and heavier weapons and ships its not going to take any longer to learn these skills just because i already have alot of mining skills or would it be worth starting a new character ?

Not sure how viable this is, but what about salvaging the wrecks in combat missions?

hmmmmm I could spec to do that very quickly, Although i think i already have the skills for that so yes. yes i could salvage the wrecks

Also i will be on later Buri must dash to work !
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LordBucket

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #883 on: February 14, 2013, 03:34:54 am »

Quote
Anyway we are doing mining runs right ?

Several of us have been doing missions for the past couple hours. Not sure if mining is on the agenda.

Quote
if we need anyone to haul stuff from place to place i have a few of the heavier ships to do this i have basically skilled only in industry.

I have an arbitrarily -=large=- pile of stuff in roughly the middle of the galaxy. If I do a permanent move to Orduin, I might take you up on that offer.

Quote
im currently skilled as a miner all the way upto piloting the hulk.

would it be worth starting a new character ?

It's very likely that in training the hulk you also trained a few hundreds thousands points worth of incidental engineering skills for CPU/powergrid/etc and probably a lot of "misc stuff" skills that are just as useful for a combat pilot. Unless you have a very good reason to start a new character, I would advise training the miner for combat rather than starting over.

Aavak

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Re: Eve Online
« Reply #884 on: February 14, 2013, 05:45:23 am »

There seems to be a reasonable group of us that enjoy all sorts of activities, currently congregating down here in Ordion. From missioning to mining, though what we'll be doing on any particular day is pretty much down to who's on and what they fancy really, so if you do join us you will likely get some decent mining done, but there will be other times when there's a bunch of us out missioning instead.

As LordBucket has mentioned though, there's no real reason that I can think of, to start a whole new character in order to train into a different sort of activity. Eve isn't like many MMOs where you have a limited number of skill points, or that by training certain skills you'll train others more slowly. So I'd say just add more skills to your main character :D
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