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[lordcooper]

Regardless of fitting (and yes, those are godawful), none of those ships are suited to w-space pvp.  There's a few main categories that almost all targets will fall under.

Explorers

T1/2 scanning frigs.  To stand any chance of catching them you need a cloak.  Rocket/blaster fit bombers, Asteros, cloaky smartbomb t3s and (to a lesser extent) the Stratios are the ships to use for this.  T1 frigs will simply never catch any but the 100% oblivious (and there aren't too many of those).  Note: don't try to fight an Astero in a bomber. 

Krabs

Primarily cruiser+ droneboats with the occasional missile/turret HAC/T3C or T3D thrown in.  May or may not have backup.  Ideal ship choice varies depending on the specific target, but as a rule of thumb you'll want a Stratios, T3C, T3D if you're really good or Recon.  Outside choices are Gila, Deimos or VNI, but this is unusual.  T1 frigs will get eaten for breakfast by most potential targets, assuming the Sleepers don't pop it first.

Group PvPers

Generally in armour HACs or T3Cs, T3Ds and shield skirmish are seen on occasion too.  Speed and high dps are the name of the game, split them up and pop the stragglers or rushers.  Ship choice is arguably less important than simply fitting for max speed.  Your solo t1 frig is no threat and honestly barely worth killing.

---

I really don't understand why you're even trying to do w-space solo if you're unable/unwilling to sub and want to stick to small ships.  Even the wormhole corps focused primarily on training new players will get them into a battlecruiser within a few days and a rattlesnake or dominix in a couple of weeks.  With how suboptimal frigates are for even the lowest class sites (I can only assume you're running C1 anoms or barely scraping through C2s) you'd make more isk blitzing hisec/lowsec DED sites or running incursions in hisec (a fresh character can train into a Warp to Me Hyperion or Rokh fit in just a few days) and FW lowsec is the place to be for t1 frig pvp.

[xaritscin]

you are missing the point that this game is about freedom. i biomassed the old char and started anew on this one because my skill set was not well handled and would have taken a lot of grind to get into use T2 mods for proper PvE (and by extension, proper PvP).

i want to optimize skills the most so i can fly something capable once i get to that 5 million mark. daily injectors are expensive, and plex is even more right now, so no options for me to go Omega unless i jump into my corp character and have to deal with all the hassle of null sec tedium.

playing a neutral alpha alt is more enjoyable for me. if i get a job i could find a way to sub without plex but this is what i have right now and i dont mind it.

flying on a bigger boat is like a long term objective but its not mandatory,. using a blaster Rokh/Scorpion would be cool but those things are slow and expensive to the point i even wonder if its worth putting prop mods on them unless you go nanos for a mere 400 m/s in the best cases.

flying the small stuff is IMO best for this holes. yeah you can clear a C1 sleeper site in 7 minutes or less with over 400 DPS. but which ships can do that amount of damage? either gimmicky and blinged T3 destroyers or Faction/T2/T3 cruisers (with bling in some cases) and up whose cost are so counterproductive for the reward of these lower classes holes that they would probably be doing more with the same fits in a C3-C4.

C1s are ripe for frigates, perhaps even standard Destroyers, its just a matter of knowing what sites are manageable with proper speed and module management. the breacher basically paid itself after a single anom, and was capable of doing the basic Relic and Data Sleeper sites. it was a self suficient lifestyle that earned good yields for the cost of the vessel so i dont get how that can be suboptimal at all.

im gonna try and check in Osmium again for a different fit, perhaps some PvP fit that can also do PvE with just swapping prop mod but it will probably wane in survivability. passive tanked wasnt taken at first because i wasnt sure if the increase in HP and the small regen it gives would compensate the increase in signature, i could understand it for a PvP kiting fit but for PvE with the range of some of those rats im not sure if the ship would last and rep itself at the right time, perhaps i dont look at the numbers enough.

i dont use oversized boosters because of the cap issues, an even sized booster is already problematic to keep around so using a size bigger that limits your cap to a few seconds doesnt seem optimal at all. and i dont trust ancillaries because of personal experiences during past PvP activities, they dont rep enough even when heated, they dont have enough space for charges and the ship dies before being able to reload so it usually goes to waste.

cap mods are part of the fits because of the neut spawns. that single Cap Battery II does wonders running the frigate capable sites because it chunks out 1/4 of the neuting from those rats, thus i can keep going even when having a cruiser spawn (or 2) draining me from 40 km. if capable, i would slap another to save lows and rigs for anything else.

[lordcooper]

you are missing the point that this game is about freedom.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at here.  Yes, you're completely free to hamstring yourself and do everything in the least efficient way imaginable if you want.  Don't be surprised when people are confused or amused by that though.

flying on a bigger boat is like a long term objective but its not mandatory,. using a blaster Rokh/Scorpion would be cool but those things are slow and expensive to the point i even wonder if its worth putting prop mods on them unless you go nanos for a mere 400 m/s in the best cases.

Platinum insurance covers the vast majority of the hull cost for t1 battleships and the cost of fittings doesn't really scale up all that much.  Hell, some of my frig fits end up costing me more when they go pop.  And yes, they're slow, but they don't need to go anywhere in a hurry.  It would be unusual to fit a prop mod (other than an MJD) to a w-space pve BS, but you will want one for pvp.  Please don't put nanos on a battleship...

flying the small stuff is IMO best for this holes. yeah you can clear a C1 sleeper site in 7 minutes or less with over 400 DPS. but which ships can do that amount of damage? either gimmicky and blinged T3 destroyers or Faction/T2/T3 cruisers (with bling in some cases) and up whose cost are so counterproductive for the reward of these lower classes holes that they would probably be doing more with the same fits in a C3-C4.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you here, but it seems like you're saying that completing a C1 anomaly in 7 minutes is your idea of almost unattainable tryhard success?  So it takes you even longer than that?

If I'm remembering right then they only give something like 10m worth of blue loot each and the lack of battleships means salvage would be negligible.  So that's about 80m isk/h ignoring salvage time and assuming no interruptions.  Two remote rep Rattlesnakes (without particularly blingy fits) in a C5 can make that much each in under ten minutes.  Double that (if not a bit more) if you're spawning the drifters and using a citadel to pop them.  If you spend a week or two doing that you'll have enough to buy/inject dread pilots and finish 200m-350m (+ about 300m from the Drifter) sites in five minutes.  Or upgrade to a C6 like i did and you can pretty much double that.  W-space is the land of milk and honey, but trying to use a dainty fork won't get you very far.

As for what puts out 400 dps?  Most t1 cruisers and above.  That is not a high number.

C1s are ripe for frigates, perhaps even standard Destroyers, its just a matter of knowing what sites are manageable with proper speed and module management. the breacher basically paid itself after a single anom, and was capable of doing the basic Relic and Data Sleeper sites. it was a self suficient lifestyle that earned good yields for the cost of the vessel so i dont get how that can be suboptimal at all.

It's suboptimal to bother doing anything in a C1.  I used to run Wormbro (poorly!) back in the day, and even then we'd have players in their first week making more isk than you are now flying semi-shitfit drakes (IIRC there was a grand total of 3.5 days of training needed to make the fit viable, and this was when starting skills were lower) in our static C2 or partnering up for C3s.

im gonna try and check in Osmium again for a different fit, perhaps some PvP fit that can also do PvE with just swapping prop mod but it will probably wane in survivability. passive tanked wasnt taken at first because i wasnt sure if the increase in HP and the small regen it gives would compensate the increase in signature, i could understand it for a PvP kiting fit but for PvE with the range of some of those rats im not sure if the ship would last and rep itself at the right time, perhaps i dont look at the numbers enough.

If you want a ship to do any task well, fit it solely for that task.  Trying to mix pve and pvp fits will basically always result in a ship that isn't particularly good at either.  It's also utterly pointless in the context of a frigate in w-space.  Other people aren't flying t1 frigates there, because it makes no sense to.  As I explained in my last post there's literally no valid targets for you, and anyone initiating combat will drastically outclass you to the point where trying to fight back instead of GTFO is just suicide.

I was partway through typing up a whole spiel about basic fitting theory before deja vu struck hard.  I'll save myself the effort, if you didn't take any of it onboard a few months ago then you probably wouldn't now either.

[xaritscin]

its not that i loathe people using bigger vessels or something like that. i tried daytripping into WHs using Harbingers and Mallers in my base char but the costs and the lower mobility of the vessels meant i had to be really paranoid in order to evade getting caught, didnt loose any of those but i was close with a 3 man gang so i stopped after i joined null sec.

the response may have sound aggresive but its because im just fed up with the idea that everything has to be limited to isk efficiency or a certain power level to be worth doing. you said you jumped to C6, i wouldnt be able to stand that level of difficulty, specially taking in account that people use capitals for that. there's no place for me there, im the subcap type of guy.

when i posted the fits i just wanted to know if the rails would work and if they would be better for what i wanted to do compared to the rockets. that was all that i needed, i didnt come asking if these would be top notch killing machines or anything like that (that's why i said that they would probably just be for farming). but most of the responses have been about how they are bad and why they wouldnt work on PvP or in WH space in general compared to whatever the others are flying.

not a single response telling me "no, those rails dont have enough tracking against sleepers" or "rockets are probably better for damage application", or "you put too much emphasis in cap when you could just passive tank it" with a reason to back it.

guess i'll just ask about those in the forums, gonna leave my messages here just for news and stuff, sorry for the aggresive comments.

[Rince Wind]

You really don't have enough base shield HP to passive tank a frig. There are only a few ships that use passive tanks at all. First among them the drake (though didn't it loose its resist bonus? That would make it worse.) and the Rattlesnake.

[Madman198237]

Xarit, you got the answer you needed, even if it wasn't the one you wanted. Basically, nobody can draw conclusions on your fit until it's worth making, and presently it's apparently not.

[xaritscin]

the stats for the Praxis battleship have been seeded on SiSi:

https://i.imgur.com/mqN14Wi.png

was kinda expecting an 8/8/8 layout but oh well.

[lordcooper]

the response may have sound aggresive but its because im just fed up with the idea that everything has to be limited to isk efficiency or a certain power level to be worth doing. you said you jumped to C6, i wouldnt be able to stand that level of difficulty, specially taking in account that people use capitals for that. there's no place for me there, im the subcap type of guy.

It's not more difficult.  If anything it's easier, just with bigger numbers.  Eve doesn't really 'do' difficult PvE.  Or particularly entertaining PvE IMO (and most of the playerbase would agree).  That's why people optimise the hell out of it, to minimise the time spent engaged in PvE to afford ships or PLEX and maximise the time engaged in the actually fun parts of the game.  I can sort of understand avoiding caps, but Rattlesnakes will do the job, and do i well.

when i posted the fits i just wanted to know if the rails would work and if they would be better for what i wanted to do compared to the rockets. that was all that i needed, i didnt come asking if these would be top notch killing machines or anything like that (that's why i said that they would probably just be for farming). but most of the responses have been about how they are bad and why they wouldnt work on PvP or in WH space in general compared to whatever the others are flying.

not a single response telling me "no, those rails dont have enough tracking against sleepers" or "rockets are probably better for damage application", or "you put too much emphasis in cap when you could just passive tank it" with a reason to back it.

You got answers to the question you actually asked.  I can't give you advice about the best way to fit a frigate to fight Sleepers.  Because I don't know.  For much the same reason that I don't know the best way to dig a hole with a screwdriver.  If you want to compare weapon application then download PYFA, plug in your skills via API key and the speed/sig radius of specific sleepers and compare for yourself.  I'm not gonna spend my morning looking at screwdrivers, and even if I did it'd be near worthless without knowing what your skills look like.

[xaritscin]

there's a new set of upwell structures in singularity (apparently), something about "industrial support". the placeholder model is a cargo rig and they come in the 3 sizes, people are speculating on their uses but it seems they are supposed to be the equivalent of the Outpost systems effects since those will be replaced by faction/regular citadels that dont give those passive boosts. others speculative they are the replacement for the POS jump bridges and cyno beacons.

anyways, its too early to know what those are.

there's discussion over other stuff like:

- Deployable Decoy Units (seems those were already in the files, its now that people are actually noticing them), those are a remnant from the deployable experimentation, some kind of deployable that shows on D-Scan as the ship that anchored it.

- Standup Remote Beacon Burst Projector (been there since february apparently), its an upwell module for large structures and above, not sure what it does but it seems its a cyno/warp beacon or something.

[xaritscin]

Guristas Pod Hunt event starts in March 20. 5 skin sets, one for each empire and a set for gurista ships (subcaps). well, that's from Singularity leaks, not sure on the difficulty (hopefully it wont be like the Guardian's Gala). seems the Hunter modules will drop from there (those BCU + DDA modules) but i dont think so.

still checking on news about the March release, nothing yet, but it should be soon.

[xaritscin]

someone was asking about this.

i made a let's play thread in the proper part of the forum for those that want to read about my experiments and overall failing at the game: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169908.0

[xaritscin]

NEW CHRONICLE:

https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/fiction/eveonline/ebooks/mithras_gate.pdf

its related to the new Sariel's Flames skin but it also ha some more reference to other lore stuff. allthought im still waiting on anything Triglavian, no news on that except for a roleplaying group that has been trying to get and decode the Trinary Data Vaults or whatever it is that its being dropped by the Drifters in Singularity.

[xaritscin]

some stuff i missed while out of the internet:

1. new chronicle "Sine Wave: Omega" its a continuation of the Sine Wave: Alpha chronicle, there's something interesting building up there.

2. Fanfest presentation about the Triglavian Domain AKA "Ayssal Space" which is built around a web of instanced pockets of space with a single entry/exit and designed for the solo player with a duration of 15-20 minutes (no one knows what happens after that, probably instadeath like ghost sites). there's stuff like dangerous weather and local bonuses along with the new AI both for the Triglavian NPCs and the Rogue Drones that follow them, there's even cases for 3 way warzone between you, the Trigs and the Drifters (no doomsday there it seems). pretty heavy stuff and there's even an structure that takes out drones and missiles, the thing is procedurally generated so you dont know what to expect when entering.

for me that have tried to stay alive in WH space it will be interesting to run despite the risk of getting camped at the exit.

the rewards among those are materials/BPCs to make the new Triglavian weapons and ships along with Mutaplasmids. in terms of limitations it seems you can enter up to cruisers (or only cruisers, cant remember) of either T1 to T2 variance (no T3s)

3. Fanfest presentation about the Triglavian Ships which are built around a single weapon + utility and drones. they basically put all their firepower on a big weapon that builds up damage over time while the rest of the slots are used for armor tank, logistic support and stuff like smartbombing or i think energy neuting.

they use a new "Precursor" class skills. it seems they want to add more ships and modules on that cathegory so expect some wacky stuff in the future. not just these guys, so i guess Alphas wont be able to ride these new boys (yet).

the Triglav weapon is a Entropic Disintegrator which deals explosive + thermal damage, it works like a turret  so it still uses optimal and tracking, but has no falloff and the damage increases by 5% per cycle to a maximum of 50% at top DPS. rate of fire seems pretty average something like 4/5/6 seconds for each weapon size and the tracking is slightly over blasters. guess its to compesate that they only operate on optimal so they will be easily kited by other vessels.

not sure of other ships will be able to field that thing but so far it looks like a Triglav only feature.


4. Mutaplasmids are also mentioned in that previous presentation which are some kind of nanites that are found in Abyssal Space and can be used to randomly improve the stats of modules. it is currently limited to active rep mods and buffer tank mods along with prop mods, prop nullification mods (webs, scrams and points) and energy disruptors (vamps and neuts). weapons and other stuff like that is out for now. the idea is that you invest on those to further personalize the modules for your fit by upping certain stats at the cost of others.


5. balance passes, it seems that HACs and  a revision to Faction (navy?) Ship performance are next on the list.

[BlackHeartKabal]

PTW

[xaritscin]

brief recap of the last updates:

1. Abyssal Deadspace is up (low income values atm, too many people doing the lower tiers, only a few people can actually profit from Tier5 sites because of the difficulty and gimmick fits, also it seems the loot tables are shitty)

2. Triglavian ships implemented, there's already some people uploading PvP videos with them.

3. Outposts have been succesfully converted into Faction Fortizars, there's at least the case of 1 "Marginis" (Gallente Faction Fortizar) lost in a killmail while being hauled in a Rorqual (WHY?)

4. there was a community funded "Elephant Race" which was basically focused on hauling stuff in Freighters. and there's currently an official race event, cant remember the name but its in the agency.

5. some new skin sets

6. owners of the Secret Code from the collector's edition are receiving SARO skins for CONCORD ships along with special apparel for their characters

8. Planetary Production (previously known as Planetary Interaction) got updated in terms of UI functionalities and other interfacing stuff (whether is an improvement or not i dont really know).

9. Mutaplasmids have been implemented and they are being checked in terms of visual communication on contracts and stuff like that. they dont have much impact so far outside of crashing the Deadspace modules market (not sure).

10. Drone Implants in Singularity Files. one sacrifices drone durability for extra damage, the other one does the opositve, nerfs damage for extra durability. not sure how they are obtained.

11. i seem to recall a Serpentis themed event is coming up next, but have to check on any updates on that.