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[Fikes]

If Rince is experienced enough to FC without us looking foolish, I say we fleet up at one of the sites and ask for people to "x up" to fill it out.

In other news... I Leeroy'ed last night. I was messing with EFT and the fleet warped to a different site. I thought they were warping in. Too late I realized my mistake.

AdventureTime! is no more and because I did a dumbs I only got 50m from the fleet insurance. Really, that was more than expected.

It wasn't a total loss. I was planning on switching from Tempest to Maelstrom anyways and with fleet insurance + sites for the day + concord insurance, I was only down 35m when I was done configuring my new Maelstrom (and that includes 20m for a lotto ticket I bought from WTM).

I mentioned to one of the WTM FCs that I was trying to get you guys into assault and Vanguard sites. They suggested you just come out and fleet up with them. I think this is a good idea.

If you are interested in doing Incursions, can fit a tech 2 shield tank, and are willing to change your riggs, get on tonight and we'll meet up to run with Warp To Me. Running a few of these sites with them will give us a good cash base and some training for when we want to run sites by ourselves.

[Rince Wind]

I have FC-ed Vanguards before (Assaults are way out of reach for us, they require around 20 people and at least 3 logi, 4 if you want to do all the different sites. But that is with experienced logi and shiny ships that can kill stuff fast. Assaults are the worst sites to run imho, vanguards and HQs are better). And I have run a couple thousand vanguard sites. Mostly before the last change, but more than enough afterwards as well.

But I recommend running Incursions with others as well.

[ScriptWolf]

How does this fitting seem for Solo sleeper hunting ? :

<shipType value="Hurricane"/>
<hardware slot="rig slot 0" type="Medium Trimark Armor Pump II"/>
<hardware slot="rig slot 1" type="Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I"/>
<hardware slot="rig slot 2" type="Medium Trimark Armor Pump II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 0" type="Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 1" type="Damage Control II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 2" type="Gyrostabilizer II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 3" type="Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 4" type="Adaptive Nano Plating II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 5" type="Gyrostabilizer II"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 0" type="Medium Hull Repairer II"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 1" type="10MN Microwarpdrive I"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 2" type="Cap Recharger II"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 3" type="Stasis Webifier II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 0" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 1" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 2" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 3" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 4" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 5" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 6" type="Salvager II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 7" type="Core Probe Launcher II"/>

I get about 250 DPS with it ( with my current skills I still need to skill for all of this ) and %50+ on all damage resistances ( which I can get even higher ( still need to sill )

[Rince Wind]

Use an Armor repairer, not a hull repairer. Use it instead of the Adaptive Nano Plating II. Real men may hull tank, but only if they want some comical relief. Seriously, hull tanking is bad. The cycle time is looong.
You have an active tank, trimarks are for buffer tanks. They increase your armor HP by a certain percentage. So they are very good when you get extra HP through plates, which you do not. Either get cap modules (2 possibilities, CCCs for a better recharge rate or the ones that make your repper use less cap) to run the tank all the time, or get resist modules, or get the rig that adds to the repair amount of armor repairers.
Think about active hardeners. They give a lot more resists than passive ones. I am not sure if the reactive armor hardener is good vs sansha though.
Fit an afterburner instead of the MWD. It uses less cap and it is easier to fit. If you can, fit 650mm artillery. Use drones and your web against frigates. If you are not cap stable, put another cap recharger in the medslot (where the hull repairer is now), if you are stable, use a tracking computer and carry both scripts.
Use a 6th gun instead of the salvager. You are way faster if you change ships to a salvage destroyer. With one salvager and no tractor beam you will need ages to salvage a sleeper site.
Prepare to warp out, I think they broke the tank of a dual rep myrm in a c2, and the myrmidon gets a bonus to repair amount.
Can you fit the t2 probe launcher? I can't.

Good hunt!

[Tyg13]

In a C2, yeah they can break the tank in my myrm if I'm not careful. Maybe with T2 tank, I could tank it, but those sleeper BS hit hard. Nevermind if I were to get ganked. Then I'm just straight screwed

[Aavak]

As with BuriBuri, if anyone should want to run Level 4 missions in and around Misha, let me know what sort of times you'll be available (Eve time, ideally) and perhaps we can organise a fleet on here for one of the nights this week, or over the weekend.

I know there are bound to be issues with time-zones, but generally speaking as long as you're going to be around for an hour, then that should be good enough to get in on a few missions at least

[BuriBuriZaemon]

Erisu: train the basi skills, but that fit might be outdated. For Vanguards it is way overtanked. It is very important that you train multitasking to 3 though, so you can lock 10 persons. Basi works with logistics 4, if you get two cap transfers. With logistics 5 it only needs one, which makes it easier to use with a scimi.

Rince, thanks for the info. Between Basi and Scimi, which one is more on-demand and why? Most of these Incursion guides are from 2010-2011 so I'd rather ask you. :p

[Rince Wind]

That question is a bit tricky.
In Vanguards scimis are preferred, because of their bonus for tracking links and their ability to fly with nothing but a t2 invul as tank (the rest is speed/sig tank).
In Assaults, I am not sure, tbh, I hardly ever run them. But I think it is still Scimis.
In HQs Scimis are still valued for their tracking links, (they need more tank here of course) but Basis are needed. Basis are usually run with a 4-2 setup (4 shield transfers, 2 energy transfers) so they can give cap to dps ships while still being part of the cap chain. There are some enemies that can neut a bs empty very quickly.
But the good thing about Basis is, that they can be run with logistics 4, for scimis you need logistics 5 (or maybe some good implants). So basis are quicker to get into, you can start running incursions with them about a month earlier. Certain groups require you to have logi 5, but TVP does not.
You'll need (near) perfect capacitor skills for both.

[ScriptWolf]

Hey rince thanks for the help yeah the hill repair was a mistake I misread it as armour haha xD and yeah everything else I can fit right now

Also I have the max of 6 projectile guns on my current fitting.

Also how would I swap out quickly ? Also I don't have 2 accounts can I not just salvage with the one ship ?

How this look now ? :

<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<shipType value="Hurricane"/>
<hardware slot="rig slot 0" type="Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II"/>
<hardware slot="rig slot 1" type="Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I"/>
<hardware slot="rig slot 2" type="Medium Nanobot Accelerator II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 0" type="Damage Control II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 1" type="Gyrostabilizer II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 2" type="Gyrostabilizer II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 3" type="Medium Armor Repairer II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 4" type="Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 5" type="Energized Explosive Membrane II"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 0" type="Cap Recharger II"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 1" type="Stasis Webifier II"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 2" type="10MN Afterburner I"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 3" type="Cap Recharger II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 0" type="Salvager II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 1" type="Core Probe Launcher II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 2" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 3" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 4" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 5" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 6" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 7" type="425mm AutoCannon II"/>
<hardware slot="drone bay" qty="3" type="Salvage Drone I"/>

I now have a stable cap aswell

[Rince Wind]

Sleepers are hard to salvage, and in most sites you will have wrecks all over the place, so you will have to move around a lot to get them all. Tractor beams make that a lot easier. Especially with the autocannons you have to move around while fighting as well (artillery does not have enough range either, but it is better), so you can't really salvage while fighting with this. Salvage drones are (next to?) useless for sleepers. Use drones to kill frigates faster, Hobgoblin IIs are the best choice. See how long it takes you to do a site. Put a destroyer in the next k-space system (i assume you are doing it from normal space, if you live in a WH have the salvager in a PoS.) and switch when you have done a site or two. Wrecks stay in space for 2 hours, iirc.

[ScriptWolf]

Hmm ok then I shall swap out to a fighter drones, and I planned on killing everything first then taking my time while salvaging and while on clean up. And yeah im doing it in normal space.

So if I am doing it with 2 ships would a noctis be good for clean up ?

And if I take the salvaged out what should I replace it with ? Due to us ring used all 6 gun slots

[LordBucket]

Salvage drones are (next to?) useless for sleepers.

Offering a second opinion: agreed that sleepers will shoot your drones if you try to salvage mid-battle, but salvaging with 5 drones at a time after the battle will probably be faster than salvaging with one salvager module.

Fit a tractor beam instead of the salvager, and that will speed up looting wrecks too.

im doing it in normal space.

So far as I know sleepers only spawn in wormhole space.

[Rince Wind]

But salvaging with 4 salvagers and 4 tractor beam is way faster than using 5 salvager drones. I think you need at least lvl 4 for medium sleepers and can't salvage large sleepers with them. Salvaging chances are low as well.
I'd fit a probe launcher in the last highslot, just in case.

Edit: Yes, sleepers only spawn in w-space, but I think Script and I meant basing out of highsec.

[LordBucket]

I think Script and I meant basing out of highsec.

...if so, salvaging with a Noctis seems even less practical. In my experience wormholes are rarely so helpful as to spawn in my home system. If he's scanning down wormholes, that will generally mean travelling around to a couple different systems before he finds one. So he'll have to make an extra trip to bring his noctis to where the wormhole is, and a second extra trip again when he's done and wants to take everything home.

Not only that, but it would mean paying an extra 80 million for a ship that would be completely helpless if anyone catches him in it, and a whole lot of warping back and forth through the wormhole, contributing to eventual mass-collapse.

salvaging with 4 salvagers and 4 tractor beam is way faster than using 5 salvager drones.

Is it? I've never flown a noctis. Is it really faster to..

After finishing the site:

1) Warp to the wormhole
2) Exit the wormhole
3) Warp to the station where your noctis is parked
4) Dock, wwitch to noctis and exit the station
5) Warp back to the wormhole
6) Enter the wormhole
7) Warp to the site you want salvage
Tractor/salvage/loot the wrecks
9) Warp back to the wormhole in your noctis
10) Exit the wormhole
11) Warp to station where you left your combat ship
12) Dock, switch ships, undock
13) Warp back to the wormhole in your combat ship
14) Enter the wormhole
15) Warp to your next site

...or...

1) Tractor and loot wrecks while fighting

After finishing the site:

2) Salvage the wrecks with drones
3) Warp to your next site

Personally, when I've salvaged sites with drones it typically takes five minutes or less. If you're using a dedicated salvage ship I'd think you'd lose more than that just warping back and forth through the wormhole not even counting salvage time.

Only reason I can think of to not use salvage drones is if you're flying something heavily dependent on drone dps. But most ships that do probably have enough drone hangar space to carry both.

[Rince Wind]

Yes, imho it is, even if you use a destroyer, and not a 80mil Noctis (I would only advise that if you lived in that WH.).

I would use a proper scan ship to find the WHs. Way faster than a cane with a probe launcher. Then bring the salvager and the combat ship to the highsec system with the WH.
Go inside, do sites for a maximum of 1 hour 30min, then go salvaging. Sleeper wrecks count as advanced wrecks, like t2 player ships, iirc. That means salvaging them is more difficult than your average mission generic wreck. It is more like faction wrecks in exploration sites (the ones that might also drop faction loot, not the regular rats). Large sleeper wrecks can't be salvaged with drones. If you use a Destroyer with rigs, you can salvage them even if your skill is only 1 or 2, and faster if it is better. Noctis would be even better, but too much of a risk in a WH when you try to manage 8 targets and forget to watch dscan.

Using a tractor and a salvager on a cane means less dps, as you have to use a turret slot. I am not sure if there are frigates that orbit out of webrange, but if they do, it might be really annoying to kill them. Less DPS also means more ammo, because the rats can regenerate more before you kill them. ACs already use a lot of ammo. Not having drones gimps your DPS even further and you'll need a long time doing the sites.
A properly fitted droneboat would be a better choice as a solo combat/salvage ship. Vexor and Myrm can do a good job i would guess.

Doing it with a friend is probably even more profitable, unless you have a pos in the system.