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[Nilik]

back to the OP topic:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/49650922/Draft-Rough-Sleeping-and-Soup-Run-Byelaw

the actual law in england.

its designed to get people off the streets and into shelters.  Not necessarily good or the right way to go about it, but it is not what is has been touted as.  All the laws are directed at doing it in open air public.  Private kitchens and such are perfectly ok.  Also, its been illegal to sleep in the streets of England for over 150 years.  FYI.

Like 90% of shelters are being shut down due to government funding cuts.

So, no, it's not okay.

Fuck the Tories, seriously. What idiots voted them in? There was a reason we avoided it for so long.

We were sick of the "lets declare war on everyone and undermine people's civil rights at every turn" party, so we thought we'd try the "cut government spending at the detriment of the people its supposed to be protecting" party for a bit.

[Criptfeind]

When I told my friend about this he said "What the fuck is this?  A national park?  Do not feed the bears?"

Well since feeding bears encourages them to not hunt for themselves and to stay around...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

When I told my friend about this he said "What the fuck is this?  A national park?  Do not feed the bears?"

Well since feeding bears encourages them to not hunt for themselves and to stay around...

My god. Encouraging humans to stick around in cities build for and by humans. What horror will arise next?

[Criptfeind]

Thus you point out part of the illogic of this law.

[Agdune]

It's good that they'll learn how to hunt on their own, as nature intended, by breaking into houses and stealing the sweet sweet eggs valuables for sustenance. Also supplementing that with the occasional mugging. The circle of life is restored.

(my gist is that shutting down programs meant to assist homeless people -and other unsightly demographics- does get rid of the visible problem, but drastically increases all those other pesky little social problems. Though, I'm speaking in general terms, one district being dicks won't exactly cause London to turn into Detroit. but the mentality does have its effects.)

[Neonivek]

No Agdune generally speaking the homeless will migrate.

They arn't as crime prone as MANY people would assume even when things get bad.

[Keita]

No Agdune generally speaking the homeless will migrate.

They arn't as crime prone as MANY people would assume even when things get bad.

Very true, if you look into it you find there are actually surprisingly few cases of homeless doing violent crimes.

Now I know this is reported crimes, but in comparison to others groups they're not even in comparable.

[Muz]

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-david-cameronrsquos-assault-on-the-homeless-is-dickensian-2231372.html

And with this dies my last shred of faith in our Government.

I swear I've read someone on another forum say those exact words.

I suppose having starving corpses at the side of the road is better than homeless people. I assume that Britain has homeless shelters or an overabundance of jobs, otherwise, there will be corpses.

[Agdune]

mmm, fair point, but I wasn't insinuating that homeless people are somehow more inclined to crime - they're simply human. Take away a person's supports, don't provide them with knowledge on how to get replacement support and they'll just start taking it from where they can. Having worked in social services for the last few years tells me that it's a pretty steady rule of thumb for most people.

Hell, the (Australian) crime rate rocketed when disability services de-institutionalised in the 80ies, throwing thousands of people out on the street without any support whatsoever after giving them a lifetime of coddling and no experience whatsoever in how the real world works. It's not a reflection on how disabled people are somehow more prone to criminality than non-disabled people, simply a reflection that people who don't know how to support themselves more generally end up supporting themselves in the simplest, most easily accessible way they can and those methods, more often than not, are illegal.

[Neonivek]

I wasn't insinuating that homeless people are somehow more inclined to crime

Yes you were... unintentionally

As proof

Take away a person's supports, don't provide them with knowledge on how to get replacement support and they'll just start taking it from where they can

It is a common fallacy though that the majority of people believe about the poor. So don't feel bad about it.

[scriver]

"A person" = "poor" or "homeless" in your mind? Sir, I do believe you seem to be projecting.

[Neonivek]

"A person" = "poor" or "homeless" in your mind? Sir, I do believe you seem to be projecting.

Let us not dance around the bush. We know what the person who "Lacked support" was refering to.

[Blargityblarg]

"A person" = "poor" or "homeless" in your mind? Sir, I do believe you seem to be projecting.

Let us not dance around the bush. We know what the person who "Lacked support" was refering to.

Yes, it refers to someone who lacked support; if the Queen were deposed tomorrow with nothing to eat but fourteen thousand corgis who, quite honestly, run around like little bastards when you're trying to catch one and don't taste too good anyway, the post would apply to her.

[Neonivek]

Yes, it refers to someone who lacked support; if the Queen were deposed tomorrow with nothing to eat but fourteen thousand corgis who, quite honestly, run around like little bastards when you're trying to catch one and don't taste too good anyway, the post would apply to her

So would you say the queen in that situation would be... Poor?

Yes I know I am setting myself up for someone with a much better example then someone suddenly becoming poor.

[Keita]

Lack of support would include money.