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Author Topic: My rant on modern video game rants  (Read 9783 times)

ChairmanPoo

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2011, 12:41:38 pm »

Most videogame review magazines are sellouts anyway.
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Ozyton

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2011, 12:59:49 pm »

Another source of 'reviews' come from people who actually play the game.

But then that's popular opinion.

(I think? I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say. When it comes to explaining my points I'm rather terrible at it.)

Deon

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2011, 01:01:19 pm »

If my opinion does not influence their quality, my wallet does not influence their budget :). I just don't buy games I don't like.

Good attitude, but the problem is that you can't really know whether you like it or not without buying it. (At least not in any legal way) Most of the games come without a demo (and those that do, are too limited to be judged), so you have to rely on reviews, which are subjective.
Well, I think it's why rents exist if you want it legal. Also "legal/illegal" are mostly defined by my own laziness here, because there are no repercussions otherwise. But even if you want it "legal", you can watch tons of Let's Plays or rent a game for a few days before you buy it :). Also that's what the friends are for :P. Tell them it's great and try it. Hehe.
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Ozyton

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2011, 01:07:44 pm »

Come to think of it, if games are becoming -that- much shorter as someone mentioned it, you could beat it in one rental, never bothering with the full price.

My brother and I rented Dead Rising 2, and while we didn't have the time to go through all the 'side quests' and stuff, we did manage to 'beat' it. Just as an example.

Deon

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2011, 01:10:13 pm »

I've beaten Mass Effect 2 in two days on a weekend. Got all side missions with all DLC. So yeah, it's totally possible if you have lots of free time :).
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Desdichado

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2011, 02:35:13 pm »

It is not how things "must" be, and it is not trying to explain how the mainstream gaming is in its "best state". Personally I would prefer if companies made a Baldurs gate (the second one in particular), or a fallout (1 or 2), or Sims (Any of them). I'm giving the view of one flawed human on why companies can make games that aren't at all what we want and get away with embarrassingly large stacks of money.

I don't think the reasons for being able to make such game were in doubt. Most people accept the "can do this" portion to the extent that they feel no need to mention it; rather we object to the "should do this" part. There are a million better ways to own a porsche than to start tinkering with code. Literally. If money was the raison d'etre for making a game in the first place, then why not become an investment banker instead, to seal up a sure thing? Most these companies did begin with a small team and a vision not yet obscured by stacks of cash, and even with an enthusiasm for their creation itself. That they "can" change their course is obvious, and if the "can" is defended as logical, then it follows it "must" happen. Only by asking "should" and by ethically placing value in the desires of one's original customers is there a hope of avoiding the siren call of jingling mainstream coin.

So then, we ultimately arrive at this: is it truly the logical step, having entered game design to create something new, to sacrifice the original goal once your company has gathered enough buzz around it and then to seek only the broadest and basest appeal for the sake of profit? I dont see the logic.

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I like this view, I really REALLY do. I think my Cynicism is longer and harder than yours though, I do not believe money to be altruistic, or even neutral, I believe that people will do pretty much anything to get it though. This is a point where our personal opinions differ, arguing this is out will probably degrade hideously and I have no desire to do that.

(On the subject of internet and modern computers I claim military funding.)

I really protest that your cynicism could be longer and harder than mine. Mine is exquisitely long and hard--and thick, too, which is what's really important.

And moving on to the perhaps timely subject of thread degradation, I say let it within reason. Why stir the surface that reflects our beliefs and not probe the depths? So explain where you're coming from. I disagree already that people will do anything for money. Some unmotivated people won't even work the simplest job for it. Others would not trade a heart-breakingly hard job for it. Rather most people see money as the measure of potential to fulfill our true desires that lie elsewhere. Few of us keep treasure hoards in our basements to swim through like Scrooge McDuck or curl up atop like Smaug. We seek it to pursue other ends, and it disappears swiftly down that path. When those other ends can't be defined in monetary terms, we're doomed to unhappiness and hoarding. To sum up that fate: ROSEBUD.

It is only when humans facelessly combine as shareholders in traded corporations that we lose the individual passions that motivate our getting of money. Only then do we become part of an entity that relentlessly seeks the means rather than the ends.

Finally, regarding the Internet's non-profit origins, if you view profit motive being at the heart of all progress, then claiming military funding in the case of computers and the Internet places you as far from a profit motive as humanly possible. While government in general lacks a profit motive, no other branch of government is more dedicated to the outright destruction of profit and the ruin of wealth than the military, which aims at efficiently breaking the most stuff at once.

Oh, btw, it's 3:30 AM in China, so I am going to sleep a bit. ;)
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Gantolandon

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2011, 03:43:25 pm »

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Honestly ranting about games is as bad as ranting about books: "Oh god he wrote such an awful poem". Don't buy it then!

I don't understand why. Why shouldn't I rant about the game or book I just bought and didn't like? Why should I let others make the same mistake?

Honestly, I don't know why praising the games you like is considered perfectly good, but if you try to criticize them, there will always be someone who'd tell you to shut up and not buy it then.
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Deon

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2011, 03:51:40 pm »

Because it's not a food or tool. It's an art of sorts, and it all depends on the creativity of the author. They do as they can, and the best option is just to avoid bad ones and stick to good.

I don't say you can't rant, you totally can and maybe sometimes should when it's a feedback, or to spread the word, but nowadays there're 100 ways to check the game for quality before you buy it.

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Why should I let others make the same mistake?
There is a difference between constructive critisizm and "ranting" (which is an opposite of "fanboyism", which is a bad thing too :)).

A good example is the Spore. It has quite nice minigames for a gameplay, not too great but still not bad; but the ranting is MAJOR because most people expected a different game because of false promises, hype and simply not checking what this game is about. It may shy away someone who really likes that kind of minigames because yeah, everyone yells "it's an awful game".
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 03:54:17 pm by Deon »
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Gantolandon

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2011, 05:20:49 pm »

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A good example is the Spore. It has quite nice minigames for a gameplay, not too great but still not bad; but the ranting is MAJOR because most people expected a different game because of false promises, hype and simply not checking what this game is about.

False promises and hype not backed up by quality are actually a perfect reason to rant. If someone were really mistaken, why not blame the marketing people who clearly didn't do a very good job?
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nenjin

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2011, 05:26:54 pm »

Don't kid yourself, the marketing people for Spore did exactly what they needed to, to sell the product.

People knew literally nothing about Spore until the week of its release. I followed it obsessively, and the first clue I had about the game's real game play were the prototype modules they released as teasers, that eventually became the creature and civ games.

They deliberately did not show a lot of combat, a lot of the city building, a lot of the tribal stuff, or any of the mechanics behind it all...because they knew they would lose the average gamer's interest.

It's rant worthy. But Spore's marketing and control of information was entirely deliberate.
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Sowelu

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2011, 09:58:56 pm »

Now, see, I can agree with you on some of this, but some of it I just don't get. Busty babes aren't inherently fun. Killing isn't inherently fun. Challenge, and overcoming it, is fun. Being stomped isn't inherently fun, however. Solving problems, saving people/cities/the world, that is inherently fun. That's all my opinion, what it seems to me, though.

Hm.  Going to have to disagree with you there, for at least the vast majority of population.  Go look at what's popular on Youtube.  Look at the movies people watch, at the magazines they consume.  Hell in a lot of ways it's basic biological drives.  Sex and violence, even simulated, are compelling...period.

Saying "It's compelling but it's not fun" is just nitpicking.

Other emotional things (saving the day, sappy romance, thrill of exploration) count, too, but they are not as universal.
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SalmonGod

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2011, 10:28:25 pm »

I've read most, not all of the thread.  The OP can be summed up as "It's all for money and that's just the way it is period."  This isn't an argument against the arguments against the state of the gaming industry so much as an argument against the existence of industry itself.

People should make things based on either purpose or inspiration.  Instead, people are making things because they need food and shelter.  Thus, we are offered massive amounts of stuff that claims to serve a purpose (entertainment) or is a product of inspiration, because we wouldn't want to buy it otherwise.  Unfortunately, those claims are usually lies justified by the producer's need to survive, and ending in our disappointment.
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Sordid

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2011, 10:53:13 pm »

I've read most, not all of the thread.  The OP can be summed up as "It's all for money and that's just the way it is period."  This isn't an argument against the arguments against the state of the gaming industry so much as an argument against the existence of industry itself.

In that case it's an argument against the existence of any and all industry, since there is no area of industry that isn't profit-driven.

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People should make things based on either purpose or inspiration.  Instead, people are making things because they need food and shelter.  Thus, we are offered massive amounts of stuff that claims to serve a purpose (entertainment) or is a product of inspiration, because we wouldn't want to buy it otherwise.  Unfortunately, those claims are usually lies justified by the producer's need to survive, and ending in our disappointment.

I believe in a happy medium. No matter how brilliant a creator you are, you need to make money to be able to support yourself and your art. As long as game developers (and other creative professionals) don't sell out completely, that's good enough for me.
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SalmonGod

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2011, 10:59:28 pm »

In that case it's an argument against the existence of any and all industry, since there is no area of industry that isn't profit-driven.

I was just trying to keep it on topic.

I believe in a happy medium. No matter how brilliant a creator you are, you need to make money to be able to support yourself and your art. As long as game developers (and other creative professionals) don't sell out completely, that's good enough for me.

This happy medium is just the best we can reasonably hope for.
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Desdichado

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Re: My rant on modern video game rants
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2011, 11:48:14 pm »

In that case it's an argument against the existence of any and all industry, since there is no area of industry that isn't profit-driven.

If you include cottage industry, there are tons of people producing goods for the love of the craft. My brother-in-law creates furniture in his woodshop behind his house. Good quality furniture, too, albeit on a small-scale. He sells it for whatever price he can move, but who attacked profit itself? No one. We attacked profit motives, not profit. (Another brother-in-law does work as a volunteer fireman for free because he dreamed to be a fireman as a child.)

I'm not with all the cynicism here. Most people want something beyond enough money to live. It ain't that hard to eat in modern America. Survival is not the motive. Greed at the expense of one's initial passion is.  If money was your initial passion, you sure as hell don't end up jockeying code, which is the easiest way to work too hard for an average middle-class wage.


This happy medium is just the best we can reasonably hope for.

No, not selling out at all is the happiest medium, and one we should ethically and reasonably expect. Those who say, "Just don't buy it" seem to think that there are endless streams of competent game companies ready to fulfill every niche. In fact, those that arise and are praised by their niche consumers often do sell-out to the mainstream eventually, and leave a gaping void. In effect, you say to us abandoned supporters, heartlessly enough, "Shut up and buy no games at all! Your niche doesn't matter. Stop liking what ten million people don't like."
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