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[qwertyuiopas]

About the "artificial gravity == free energy" idea: It would be most likely that the artificial gravity generator, however it works, might have to expend energy at a rate that varies with how much it is affecting, so by putting a hydroelectric system nearby, you increase the ammount of energy that the gravity generator needs by more than the hydroelectric generator can provide, even at 100% efficiency.

A more successful model would be possible if there was a material that could "block" gravity: Encase a large cube in it, and put a pipe on the outside from the top to the bottom of the cube. Put a generator mid-pipe. Free energy, as long as the bottom end of the cube was facing the only strong source of gravity nearby.

[GlyphGryph]

I fail to see how a gravity generator would be any more useful in perpetual motion than an electromagnet and a magnetic liquid, honestly.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Because presumably, gravity generated thus is linear. An electromagnet's field geometry means that you can't easily drag an object sideways out of the field, while gravity won't object to the object moving sideways out of its effect. Essentially, you have a plate that projects a "beam" that is all-permeating and inflicts negative force on whatever it hits, effectively pulling things towards the emitter. That's what is generally imagined when a "gravity generator" is mentioned. I don't see how that can work, personally, but then again, we don't know a lot of things about the universe so far.

[Il Palazzo]

I remember reading that one sf story, of what title, and by whom, I don't recollect. But it had this fun idea in it: It presumed that the gravity is not in fact an attractive force between two objects having mass, rather it's an effect caused by mass acting as a shielding from the repulsive force premeating the universe(IIRC).
So, you felt the Earth pulling you down, because the force pushed on you from every direction but from Earth's. The apparent gravitational force was inversely proportional to the distance sqaured, because the area of any given body decrases like that. The more mass was there in the way, the more of the repulsive force was blocked, etc.
I think the Future People in that story developed some material that could block the repulsive force from one side only, without being overly massive by itself(which is like doing science-fiction on your science-fiction), so they built ships "powered" by having one of these plates in front of them.

I just thought that it was a fun idea, and somewhat related to the thread, if ultimately silly.

[MonkeyHead]

anyone fancy borrowing some neutron star material and hammering it into a flat sheet, or even some kind of pipe? worth a try right?

[Virex]

I would like to see the (most likely rather explosive) results of bringing neutronium in a low-density, low-gravity environment. Assuming of course that I can watch it from a suitably safe distance.


On a similar note, why do people keep forgetting the 3 laws of thermodynamics:
1.) You can't win.
2.) You can't break even.
3.) You can't get out.

[Darvi]

anyone fancy borrowing some neutron star material and hammering it into a flat sheet, or even some kind of pipe? worth a try right?

That wouldn't work, they have so much gravity because of the pure amount of mass in it. Just taking some of it wouldn't have more effect than, say, a piece of earth that weighs exactly the same amount.

[MonkeyHead]

anyone fancy borrowing some neutron star material and hammering it into a flat sheet, or even some kind of pipe? worth a try right?

That wouldn't work, they have so much gravity because of the pure amount of mass in it. Just taking some of it wouldn't have more effect than, say, a piece of earth that weighs exactly the same amount.

so am i wrong in thining taking a 1m^3 chunk out of one and using its inherant mass as a gravity well then?

[Darvi]

Depends on the density. 1 m^3 of a neutron star weighs a fuckton afaik, but an amount of Earth that weighs the same would have he same effect.


Never mind that the density would probably decrease once the stuff is out of the sun.


And that it's effing hot.

[Virex]

anyone fancy borrowing some neutron star material and hammering it into a flat sheet, or even some kind of pipe? worth a try right?

That wouldn't work, they have so much gravity because of the pure amount of mass in it. Just taking some of it wouldn't have more effect than, say, a piece of earth that weighs exactly the same amount.

so am i wrong in thining taking a 1m^3 chunk out of one and using its inherant mass as a gravity well then?

There's no problem with it with it, unless you count the cubic meter expanding to a cubic megameter in your cargo bay as a problem.

[MonkeyHead]

yea, forgot the fact that its compressed as a result of the net effect of the stars entire mass. schoolboy error.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Would neutronium (neutron-degenerate matter it's called, if I recall correctly) even react to pressure change once it collapsed? It's more or less not even made of atoms anymore, will it have any forces acting from within to push itself apart?

[Il Palazzo]

If there was no outward force, then the neutron star would collapse upon itself. The fact that it doesn't do so, is a clear indication that there is, in fact, such a force.
My understanding of physics is not good enough to know what exactly would that be.

[MonkeyHead]

*considers pauli exclusion principle, strong/weak nuclear forces, electrostatic repulsive forces...*

weeeeellll, techinically it is made of atoms - just one big fucking one.

[thobal]

Would neutronium (neutron-degenerate matter it's called, if I recall correctly) even react to pressure change once it collapsed? It's more or less not even made of atoms anymore, will it have any forces acting from within to push itself apart?

I'd always heard that a neutron star is basically one giant neutron.

So ignoring the problem of removing a small amount of this material, I would think that without gravitational forces holding it together, the material would under go rapid radioactive decay.

If there was no outward force, then the neutron star would collapse upon itself. The fact that it doesn't do so, is a clear indication that there is, in fact, such a force.
My understanding of physics is not good enough to know what exactly would that be.

wiki says it's the "Pauli exclusion principle"

EDIT: damn ninjas!