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[Phantom]

Well, as a Vassal I will only limit myself into sending one or two infantry units to him when requested. Same with you guys.

[Sheb]

Phantom, your offer is welcome. As my vassal, you shall gain a fief in or near Brent as soon as we've reclaimed it. You shall also be known as Baron Phantom.

[Phantom]

The Kasr Umirat accepts that request and will send you two infantry legions to be used under you. And I am not a Baron, I am but a Lord.
(Lord Commissar is preferred.)

[Johnfalcon99977]

Phantom, I would like you to know that if you go though with this vassage, you like be barred from the alliance. A member cannot be a part of our alliance and be a underling to a potiential enemy of the alliance!

[Taricus]

Falcon. lay off him.

[Phantom]

Sir, being a Vassal is easily breakable. It is but an agreement, and the agreement is quite limited. Two Infantry Legions at a time. Plus, if this deal goes through, we will have gained yet another ally.

[Sheb]

With the title of Baron come a Peerage. Anyway, if that is your choice, you will be known as Lord Commissar even though it goes against our traditions. As our Vassal, your lands is our Duty to protect, and we shall consider any aggression against you as a declaration of war against us.

I also announce that we will start working on a shipyard. To protect trade routes between our land and our vassal's, a powerful fleet is needed.

[Johnfalcon99977]

You mean kick him out? If he does, I will.

Think about it. We are in a mutual protection pact, renember? What if SHEB attacks us? What will happen to Phantom? He cannot be in this alliance and be an underling to what could be an ENEMY!

Sir, being a Vassal is easily breakable. It is but an agreement, and the agreement is quite limited. Two Infantry Legions at a time. Plus, if this deal goes through, we will have gained yet another ally.

A vassel is a underling kingdom. They are bound in a contract in serve the enemy kingdom at all costs! What you say is not vassage. If you agree to this then I WILL kick you from this alliance.

Edit: A better way to prevent your barring is to have him join our alliance. We could use a tie-breaker anyway.

[Taricus]

Nay, you'll leave the alliance JF, we decide as a group.

[Phantom]

Oi, what if he doesn't attack us, eh? What, you want to guarantee hostility on this continent? And you already have one objector. Think. If you kick me you will have made an enemy by now.

[Johnfalcon99977]

But think for one second.

A vassel is an underling kingdom who must obey his master kingdom.

Our Alliance has all members as equal. And we all must protect our allied brothers.

What if we pass the resolution of war againist sheb? Or what if he invades us? Sheb has no connections to the alliance, and if he gets any, he may have to push away his neutral statement in the war with the Gnomes.

(( This is starting to feel like REAL POLITICS! Only more exciting. ))

[Taricus]

At this rate it'll fall apart.

[Phantom]

Ah, but you have one flaw. I am not acting as a completely true vassal kingdom! And we do not have any quarrels with Sheb, what are we to be suspicious of?

[Johnfalcon99977]

You can only be a vassel, or be an ally. Vassel implies that you are weaker, that you have no other choice then subjecting yourself to the other Kingdom. This is in no way the relation you have with Sheb.

On the other hand, Ally, or Alliance, implies equal, or that we are at the same level. This is most certainly what you and sheb are. It would make far more sense to become allies rather than vassel and master.

And an alliance is beficial to both, rather then one-sided. In your vassage to Sheb, you must send him units no matter what if he is attacked, and there is nothing on what happens when you are invaded. In our alliance, we send all our spare units to help any faction that is attacked by an agressor, no matter what. And you must send your spare units, if you have none to spare, then you may not send any. And it is agreed that factions must help any faction that is attacked.

I am trying to prove that you want an alliance, not a vassage. An alliance would be a better lasting, more fruit-ful way to befit all. A vassage would be a stupid and regetful choice for you.

Edit: I am also less worried by the relations we have with now, then the relations we WILL have with him. It is impossible to stay out of world politics forever, and Sheb may turn up on the wrong end of our weapons in the future.

[adwarf]

DAMNIT JF ITS SPELLED VASSAL