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[Yoink]

If it's anything like Tranquility Quest, I'm sure it's quite entertaining!
Although I think the setting/theme of TQ was really something very special. Question: was Thief-Taker already an actual game when you did that LP of it?

[notquitethere]

My game, Trials of the Thief-Taker, is 25% off on Steam right now. Just in case your cup of tea is an interactive novel about catching or abetting highwaymen, smugglers and counterfeiters.

I note that half your reviews are negative - what are your thoughts on the points that the negative reviews mention?

One part of it was how the game was marketed (which is not in my hands): a lot of people played the game for the romance options, which are there but aren't a major part of the game. When they couldn't unlock the romances they bounced off. Also some people really didn't like the period slang element.

One valid criticism is that people think the ending is too rushed. The endings are very dependent on how you played the game, so the ending can be more or less involved. For instance, there's a huge trial sequence the player can skip if they never get arrested. The game has way more breadth than some players realise, with wildly different outcomes depending on how you play. It's a game for people that like to be rewarded for roleplaying in different ways.

In the next game I'm working on, I'm learning from these criticisms and making fuller romance options and much more protracted end-games. There'll be less granularity in responses though as players just don't perceive it. In Thief Taker, most of the skill checks have around five different possible outcomes rather than just success or failure, and it was probably a wasted effort on my part.

If it's anything like Tranquility Quest, I'm sure it's quite entertaining!
Although I think the setting/theme of TQ was really something very special. Question: was Thief-Taker already an actual game when you did that LP of it?

TQ  was made up but was based on the setting of a free game I released, Calm. The Let's Play of Thief-Taker starter when the game was published.

[Retropunch]

One part of it was how the game was marketed (which is not in my hands): a lot of people played the game for the romance options, which are there but aren't a major part of the game. When they couldn't unlock the romances they bounced off. Also some people really didn't like the period slang element.

One valid criticism is that people think the ending is too rushed. The endings are very dependent on how you played the game, so the ending can be more or less involved. For instance, there's a huge trial sequence the player can skip if they never get arrested. The game has way more breadth than some players realise, with wildly different outcomes depending on how you play. It's a game for people that like to be rewarded for roleplaying in different ways.

In the next game I'm working on, I'm learning from these criticisms and making fuller romance options and much more protracted end-games. There'll be less granularity in responses though as players just don't perceive it. In Thief Taker, most of the skill checks have around five different possible outcomes rather than just success or failure, and it was probably a wasted effort on my part.

Really interesting, thanks for that.

In regards to 'the player not noticing' one of my good friends works for a very big games company, and he was saying that the amount of time/effort on stuff that very few players ever see is insane - in one FPS game they had made all sorts of AI interactions and clever things you could do (literally months of work), and out of the hundred or so people that play tested it none of them noticed it at all. It cost so much in performance overheads that they just ended up scrapping it.

Keep up the work - I'm not a big interactive novels guy, but I'll definitely have a look into this one!

[notquitethere]

In regards to 'the player not noticing' one of my good friends works for a very big games company, and he was saying that the amount of time/effort on stuff that very few players ever see is insane - in one FPS game they had made all sorts of AI interactions and clever things you could do (literally months of work), and out of the hundred or so people that play tested it none of them noticed it at all. It cost so much in performance overheads that they just ended up scrapping it.

A part of game design is definitely coaching player's expectations about how the game will react to their input. Sometimes you want to convince them that there's more going on than there is, but often you want to highlight the cool interactions that they might otherwise miss.

[scriver]

Particularily if the interactions are of a kind that players are not expecting because of experience with other games - such as AI interactions

[Shadowlord]

It's worse since these days, game base prices are like $60 or $70.

Base game prices have been like that since like the days of the SNES

Actually, now that I think about it, inflation means they're cheaper nowadays, dunnit? Just now occurred to me the relatively static price point has the practical effect of dropping in cost.

PC games did used to be base $50, but I'm going to assume you're right about console game prices (I remember the outrage over PC game prices going up to match console game prices). As for pc games, the price of a complete game is significantly higher for many games due to dlc (or a season pass), unless you wait a few years for a complete/gold/Platinum/goty/whatever edition that includes it all. (And then there are games with continually released dlc, making it increasingly expensive to have a complete version of the game, games with subscription fees, games with microtransactions, games with lootboxes)

Of course, expansions existed for PC games at least as far back as civ 2 and Warcraft 2, in the 90s, but as far as I can recall most "AAA" games didn't have them, and somehow the ones that did didn't feel exploitative to me the way the Stellaris dlc does (which is perhaps not the hill to die on, but I own only the base game and it is very obviously incomplete with missing features and stuff, and paradox breaks it practically every time they release a new dlc).

[Akura]

Bought Foxhole which was on sale, and spent around an hour mining scrap and sulfur. Not sure if I was doing it right - I put the stuff into the refinery, refined it, took it out of the output area beneath the input box, and left it in the refinery's main inventory. Is it available to the logistics guys, or do I have to drop off the b- and e-mats somewhere else? The stuff's heavy, and I don't feel important enough to pull a vehicle to haul it.

As for pc games, the price of a complete game is significantly higher for many games due to dlc (or a season pass)

*cough*The Sims 3, CKII, DCS World...*cough*
Oh hey, speaking of DCS World, they just happened to have a huge price increase just before the sale.

[Retropunch]

PC games did used to be base $50, but I'm going to assume you're right about console game prices (I remember the outrage over PC game prices going up to match console game prices). As for pc games, the price of a complete game is significantly higher for many games due to dlc (or a season pass), unless you wait a few years for a complete/gold/Platinum/goty/whatever edition that includes it all. (And then there are games with continually released dlc, making it increasingly expensive to have a complete version of the game, games with subscription fees, games with microtransactions, games with lootboxes)

Of course, expansions existed for PC games at least as far back as civ 2 and Warcraft 2, in the 90s, but as far as I can recall most "AAA" games didn't have them, and somehow the ones that did didn't feel exploitative to me the way the Stellaris dlc does (which is perhaps not the hill to die on, but I own only the base game and it is very obviously incomplete with missing features and stuff, and paradox breaks it practically every time they release a new dlc).

Couldn't agree more with all of that - the cost of the 'base game' is probably lower, but as soon as you take into account getting the 'full experience' it's a lot higher.

Older expansion packs were significantly better value for money - they added a massive chunk of content and at most you could expect one or maybe two expansions for games that did have them, and none from most games. Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction was a prime example of how it should be done - two new classes, a whole new act, loads of tweaks and the addition of a few (really major) mechanics. I remember at the time being really impressed with the idea that games could have an expansion that improved the longevity so much.

Now we've got things like Stellaris which annoyed me no end - there may as well have been placeholder signs that said 'DLC content here' where all the DLC mechanics were supposed to sit. If you don't upgrade, you get a laughably basic version of the mechanics, which basically just works as a teaser to try to get you to buy the DLC.

[Rolan7]

It's kinda amazing how good Diablo 2 LoD was compared to Diablo 1's expansion pack
Of course D1's was third party and the original devs were out of the loop, or so they said at GDC heh.

[ChairmanPoo]

I used to hate Paradox for their DLC policy, and I'm still somewhat unhappy with the prices, but eeh, TBH if you see it as continiing development under the same engine is a nice touch, and leads to very  polished games (CK2 in particular), so I'm willing to grant that, if you see it like that, they have a point. Other companies will release a sequel with a few cosmetic improvements in that span of time and sell it as a full new game. And other companies wont even concern themselves with the cosmetic improvements (I'm looking at you Illwinter)

[Retropunch]

I used to hate Paradox for their DLC policy, and I'm still somewhat unhappy with the prices, but eeh, TBH if you see it as continiing development under the same engine is a nice touch, and leads to very  polished games (CK2 in particular), so I'm willing to grant that, if you see it like that, they have a point. Other companies will release a sequel with a few cosmetic improvements in that span of time and sell it as a full new game. And other companies wont even concern themselves with the cosmetic improvements (I'm looking at you Illwinter)

I get what you mean, and to be honest I don't think CK2 is that bad - sure it costs £150 for everything in a bundle, but the base game was largely fine, and the DLC is mostly straight content additions (with additional mechanics to support that content) rather than 'this should have been in the base game'. Stellaris just took it a bit too far IMO, and it seemed purposefully greedy.

[Shadowlord]

I used to hate Paradox for their DLC policy, and I'm still somewhat unhappy with the prices, but eeh, TBH if you see it as continiing development under the same engine is a nice touch, and leads to very  polished games (CK2 in particular), so I'm willing to grant that, if you see it like that, they have a point. Other companies will release a sequel with a few cosmetic improvements in that span of time and sell it as a full new game. And other companies wont even concern themselves with the cosmetic improvements (I'm looking at you Illwinter)

Honestly, Dom4 is/was so good and I played it so much (973 hours on Steam!) that if I had the money to spare to throw at Ilwinter for Dom5, I would. In contrast, the only thing I really seem to enjoy in Stellaris is the process of designing new species & empires and coming up with a backstory and/or description for them.

[Micro102]

2 questions.

1) I keep running into a bunch of early access games and am wondering what are some early access games that have come out of early access and are finished and good.

2) I love almost all Paradox games, but Stellaris makes me hesitant as it's a space game and they all tend to be dull. Is Stellaris as complex as EU4/CK2/HoI4?

[Shadowlord]

1) I keep running into a bunch of early access games and am wondering what are some early access games that have come out of early access and are finished and good.

Subnautica? Kerbal Space Program?

[Twinwolf]

2) I love almost all Paradox games, but Stellaris makes me hesitant as it's a space game and they all tend to be dull. Is Stellaris as complex as EU4/CK2/HoI4?

Stellaris, imo,, is not nearly as complex as other Paradox titles. Granted I may just think that because I'm not very good at it? I dunno.