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[Sergius]

Fallen Enchantress is pretty good.

Yes but Legendary Heroes is better... it is also not an expansion as far as I am able to tell, in spite of being called a stand alone expansion.

Well, that's what "standalone expansion" usually means, even if it seems an oxymoron. Standalone = no other installable needed. Expansion because, I assume, not enough changes to be a sequel.

Standalone expansion MEANS that it is an expansion that you can play without the original game.

The problem with Legendary Heroes is that it doesn't "Expand" anything if you have the original. Making it less "Standalone expansion" and more "Completely separate game".

I would even outright challenge that it isn't an expansion at all... but I assume if you have both you get to chose between them in a menu.

Internally, they took the same game, "expanded" it, then released it as a separate install. Yes, it's not aware of the original game. Because it's the original game. Included, in the installation. So you have two installed copies of the game, one expanded, one non-expanded. The "Standalone Expansion" is the same codebase, but they added to it. It could have been a patch, but it wasn't.

Standalone Expansion doesn't mean something that optionally can recognize that you already have the non-expanded game and add to it if that's the case.

I think examples of good "Stand-alone Expansions" are the THQ RTSs developed by Relic. That is, the Dawn of War series and the Company of Heroes series.

Stand-alone: Doesn't need the original title to be able to play it.
Expansion: Adds actual new stuff, and owning the original or other SAEs just gives you all the original and bonus content at once (so it's not a separate game).

Any game that says its an SAE but doesn't live up to what the Relic RTSs did simply aren't SAEs in my book.

Good is a subjective measure. Being good or bad doesn't make something an expansion pack or not-expansion pack. "Living up" to something good isn't a requisite of being an expansion, since Expansion is not a measure of quality.

FYI, the Dawn of War series doesn't add anything to the previous game. It includes ALL the content in the older game, all it does is look for the EXE of the old game and enable/disable factions. You can have all units by providing some dummy files renamed as the older game executables, without bothering to install the other games.

[Chaoswizkid]

I think examples of good "Stand-alone Expansions" are the THQ RTSs developed by Relic. That is, the Dawn of War series and the Company of Heroes series.

Stand-alone: Doesn't need the original title to be able to play it.
Expansion: Adds actual new stuff, and owning the original or other SAEs just gives you all the original and bonus content at once (so it's not a separate game).

Any game that says its an SAE but doesn't live up to what the Relic RTSs did simply aren't SAEs in my book.

Good is a subjective measure. Being good or bad doesn't make something an expansion pack or not-expansion pack. "Living up" to something good isn't a requisite of being an expansion, since Expansion is not a measure of quality.

Your argument would make sense if I was saying that "Relic's Stand-alone Expansions are good in general, therefore any SAE that isn't as good as them isn't an SAE." I was saying that they were good examples and established criteria for why they were good examples. Then I said that if an SAE doesn't meet those criteria (given my criteria were that they basically have to fulfill the definition of a stand-alone expansion with the added bit of having to relate the SAE to the original and other SAEs) then I would not consider it an SAE.

FYI, the Dawn of War series doesn't add anything to the previous game. It includes ALL the content in the older game, all it does is look for the EXE of the old game and enable/disable factions. You can have all units by providing some dummy files renamed as the older game executables, without bothering to install the other games.

I believe that you're wrong. The reason why each DoW and other games had all of the original content was because they wanted you to be able to just own one SAE, go on multiplayer, and queue with any other person that owned any title from the franchise. The easiest way to do that was to simply lock the other races. They still added new races, new maps, new campaigns, new units for other races from SAEs that you might own if you own them, etc. Simply saying that the series "doesn't add anything to the previous game" is outright fallacious.

Furthermore, given just how much was added in each game, they could have either marketed the games as simple expansions or as stand-alone expansions. By going with the SAE route, they sided with consumers in allowing them to play with everyone else even if they didn't go out and buy every other game in the series that they released. They also didn't charge full-price for the new SAEs that were released. I don't see how them including the full content of the previous games, albeit locked, to go along with their marketing has anything to do with discussion on what is or is not an SAE.

[Sergius]

I believe that you're wrong. The reason why each DoW and other games had all of the original content was because they wanted you to be able to just own one SAE, go on multiplayer, and queue with any other person that owned any title from the franchise. The easiest way to do that was to simply lock the other races. They still added new races, new maps, new campaigns, new units for other races from SAEs that you might own if you own them, etc. Simply saying that the series "doesn't add anything to the previous game" is outright fallacious.

Ok, let's try to explain this again.

You can install, let's say, Soulstorm, and play it. Try to play a skirmish mode, and it won't let you use any of the factions except those that are new in Soulstorm. Allegedly, by also having "Dark Crusade", you can use the skeletrons and whatnot.

EXCEPT: Soulstorm doesn't use any Dark Crusade assets. You can fool it into thinking you have installed Dark Crusade, and it will unlock those factions. Presto! Now you can play as the skeletons and anime-armor factions. Then, by fooling it again into thinking you have the original Dawn of War, now you can play as Marines! YAY!

Now please tell me again how my information is false. Does the game ADD anything to the installation folder of the older game? Can you play the older game with the new units? No? You can't? Speak higher please. Oh, right, it doesn't ADD anything, it duplicates the entire information on a different place, without ADDING anything to the old folder.

Hello! No adding! Also, look up "fallacious". I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[Tellemurius]

umm why are we on a standalone expansion tangent?

[Biag]

AI War: Fleet Command and all of its DLC is on sale for 75% off this week. The entire bundle is $4.24. Thoughts?

[Dutchling]

AI War: Fleet Command and all of its DLC is on sale for 75% off this week. The entire bundle is $4.24. Thoughts?

The AI part it interesting. The actual game is, in my opinion, shit.
Still, if you really like the idea of playing a strategy game where the AI is specifically designed to cheat/be an AI, instead of being a multiplayer substitute, you will probably like it I guess.

[Sirus]

AI War: Fleet Command and all of its DLC is on sale for 75% off this week. The entire bundle is $4.24. Thoughts?

It's interesting. You have to carefully plan which AI bases to eliminate, as destroying too many, too quickly, or destroying the wrong ones will trigger massive counterattacks.

I'm terrible at it, but its a fun concept.

[TripJack]

AI War: Fleet Command and all of its DLC is on sale for 75% off this week. The entire bundle is $4.24. Thoughts?

great game, one of the very few RTS games that I actually like...

i suggest that you grab the demo and see for yourself, you have all week to decide

[Toaster]

Space Empires IV and V are also 75% off, to continue the late trend of putting 4X games on sale.  I enjoyed them, but check for mods- the default AI is a bit brainless.

[RedKing]

Monaco is 60% off right now, $6 for one copy, or $18 for a 4-pack.

Steam seems intent on bleeding me dry from a thousand indie paper cuts.

[Chaoswizkid]

Stuff

Oh, I see what you're saying now, although I don't see why you feel like you have to make that point. When does any standalone expansion add data to the previous game's folder, other than patches? When does any expansion add data other than patches? If you want to play Age of Empires II with the Aztec and Maya, you'll have to double click on that Conquerors Expansion .exe. On DoW: Considering that the only things from the older games that you could play independently are the campaigns, and the campaigns are specialized and balanced around that set amount of races, I don't really think your point matters. No, you can't go to the original DoW and play the campaign as the Necrons. No, you can't go to the original DoW and play a skirmish map single-player as the Necrons. Yes, you can go to the original DoW and play against the Necrons in multiplayer if another player owns the Dark Crusade SAE (because the Dark Crusade release creates a patch for DoW to make it multiplayer compatible, so in a way it does actually add content to the old installation folder). I think, but I'm not certain, that you can play as the Necrons in multiplayer through DoW if you have DoW and DC installed. I doubt it, though. It'd make more sense to just run the game through DC.

So what point are you trying to make, then? If you tried to make that point about:

Expansion: Adds actual new stuff, and owning the original or other SAEs just gives you all the original and bonus content at once (so it's not a separate game).

Then I'll just clarify that "bonus content" was talking about the content from the other games that you own and installed (or duped the .exe to fool the game, if you're like that). That is, if you own Dark Crusade and all of the previous games, you get access to all of those other races + special units unlocked from owning multiple titles from the series. "so it's not a separate game" was talking about something like Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion, where it's a "Stand-alone Expansion" but it's really just a new game. There's no synergy from owning the other titles. It's new, improved, updated. It's more similar to a remake except it uses the same engine and there's not enough stuff to actually call it a remake. The game is its own entity, it's just called a "Stand-alone Expansion".

That's different from the DoW and CoH SAEs which all inter-relate.

Also, look up "fallacious". I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Damn, got me there. I've only known it as a synonym for false, didn't think it was actually a special case of false. Anyway, I retract that since I understand what you mean now, but I still don't understand why you try to make that point.

[ductape]

Stuff

Oh, I see what you're saying now, although I don't see why you feel like you have to make that point. When does any standalone expansion add data to the previous game's folder, other than patches? When does any expansion add data other than patches? If you want to play Age of Empires II with the Aztec and Maya, you'll have to double click on that Conquerors Expansion .exe. On DoW: Considering that the only things from the older games that you could play independently are the campaigns, and the campaigns are specialized and balanced around that set amount of races, I don't really think your point matters. No, you can't go to the original DoW and play the campaign as the Necrons. No, you can't go to the original DoW and play a skirmish map single-player as the Necrons. Yes, you can go to the original DoW and play against the Necrons in multiplayer if another player owns the Dark Crusade SAE (because the Dark Crusade release creates a patch for DoW to make it multiplayer compatible, so in a way it does actually add content to the old installation folder). I think, but I'm not certain, that you can play as the Necrons in multiplayer through DoW if you have DoW and DC installed. I doubt it, though. It'd make more sense to just run the game through DC.

So what point are you trying to make, then? If you tried to make that point about:

Expansion: Adds actual new stuff, and owning the original or other SAEs just gives you all the original and bonus content at once (so it's not a separate game).

Then I'll just clarify that "bonus content" was talking about the content from the other games that you own and installed (or duped the .exe to fool the game, if you're like that). That is, if you own Dark Crusade and all of the previous games, you get access to all of those other races + special units unlocked from owning multiple titles from the series. "so it's not a separate game" was talking about something like Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion, where it's a "Stand-alone Expansion" but it's really just a new game. There's no synergy from owning the other titles. It's new, improved, updated. It's more similar to a remake except it uses the same engine and there's not enough stuff to actually call it a remake. The game is its own entity, it's just called a "Stand-alone Expansion".

That's different from the DoW and CoH SAEs which all inter-relate.

Also, look up "fallacious". I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Damn, got me there. I've only known it as a synonym for false, didn't think it was actually a special case of false. Anyway, I retract that since I understand what you mean now, but I still don't understand why you try to make that point.

wut is all this? Does it belong in this thread? please move along.

[Neyvn]

I got me this 50% off card for this game...
http://store.steampowered.com/app/244810/
Someone take it the game don't interest me...

[Lectorog]

Midweek Madness: Gone Home and Sir, You Are Being Hunted are each 50% off. Both are pretty acclaimed, but each has its own type of players.

[Darkmere]

Serious Sam Double D XXL apparently launched on PC yesterday, as a free upgrade to all current Double D owners. However... the game (DLC included) is also 75% off (making it $2.50 US) for the next few days. I bought it on sale on a whim a few months ago, and it's a pretty enjoyable over-the-top platformer shmup.