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[King_of_the_weasels]

Separating some jobs and skills would also make life easier. For example someone came up with an idea to separate smoothing and engraving labours, while keeping their use of stone detailing skill, or "mine ore" and "mine rock". This would be as usefull for these jobs as workshop profiling is for masons.

That could be useful, maybe.  Then we could separate the things that make a difference to the player from the things that make a difference in terms of skill.

So miner could be split into ore/gem/rock/soil, and engraving could be split into smoothing and engraving proper (both still training the same skill), while other labors could fall under the same heading, while training separate skills for the purpose of realism.

It seems needlessly complicated to have both.  Oh I have 5 miners, which one is the gem one?  Oh look smoothers and engravers they're the same thing though so It doesn't matter who does what. (Not that I hate that, I obviously want it since I suggested it earlier)

Plus I'd prefer engraving and smoothing to be different skills cause one's labor and the others art.  Then again I'm not sure if making statues should also be different. :\

[IT 000]

I agree with King of the Weasels. Mining should be one skill. If you are a legendary gem miner, why can't you mine out an ore or a boulder just as effectively?

As far as splitting masonry into a million different pieces. I really don't see the realism in that. If you are a mason, you wouldn't spend your entire life learning how to make chairs, and block out every other mason related creation. Even if you did, there isn't much of a difference between a chair and a table.  You would be able to create a multitude of items. If you know how to make a quality table, you know how to chisel/cut stone. and likewise you can carve it into a figure, it would be slightly more difficult. But you would still be able to carry over your knowledge thus your masonry skill would still affect the statue..

As far as engraving goes, I like the simplicity and easiness to train. Yes in reality knowing how to mop a floor is different then painting. Presumably dwarves are not smoothing the stone, they are just creating millions of micro engravings that make the floor appear smooth.

[King_of_the_weasels]

I only ment sculpting not every little thing, I'm against that.  I only like titles, like cooper cause you made a lot of barrels or bins, but you can still make a bed, even if that's not entirely realistic.

[Maklak]

I agree with King of the Weasels. Mining should be one skill. If you are a legendary gem miner, why can't you mine out an ore or a boulder just as effectively?

I'm not saying mining should be split, I'm saying it could be split in two labours, that use the same skill. I agree, it is confusing.

[King_of_the_weasels]

... You said stone detailing should be two with the same skill... not mining.  Mining was like 3 skills all different.

[dree12]

To be more on topic, I will debate some of the OP's suggestions. Sorry, but you asked for people from the other side .
Wood Burning should be separate. I do plenty of wood burning, I don't see how else you can get fuel reliably (once you run out of lignite and bit. coal, of course). Potash and Lye making are similar enough.
Milling is constantly used, and should be separated from Threshing. Pressing I assume will become much more important later, so this combination is likely a problem.
Animal Processing is blowing my mind. Sometimes I need that control, especially with Milking and Cheese Making. Quality isn't everything when you have more animals then milkers. Shearing and Spinning are not realistic to combine, and Beekeeping makes no sense in there.

So basically, I would merge Potash and Lye, and wouldn't really care about Pressing and Threshing. The rest, I find too much use for to lose. Remember that skill synergy would help with your "farmers can't do other tasks" argument, and to be honest most people were farmers at that time.

For the additional ones:
Fish Dissector - Support, or merge with Small Animal Dissection (there isn't much use of that)
Siege - Oppose, as they are completely different.
Pump Operating - Really, it can be its own skill. I have no problems with it.
Small Animal Dissection - Neutral. I really think it should be separate, but it wouldn't be that useful to me.

[IT 000]

Good to hear from the other side, unanimous ideas bug me a little bit. I always like some debate over a subject.

I agree with you, wood burning should be kept separately, but perhaps it could include potash making and lye making.

I'm not saying these things aren't different. They are all different from each other in more ways then one. However, I am saying that if you knew how to do one thing, you would knew how to do the other. You wouldn't fleece a sheep if you didn't know how to spin the cloth. While Siege operating and engineering are different, if you didn't know how to fire a catapult what are the chances you are going to build it correctly? Likewise if you didn't know how a catapult worked you wouldn't be able to fire it. It isn't something complicated, many of us have probably done a catapult project back in school. Concerning Milling/threshing and the like, farmers would know about all these way back when, so that's why that was included.

Beekeeping is sort of the oddball, it involves animals, and doesn't have quality. Now if inexperienced beekeepers got stung more often I would probably put it on it's own just because it isn't like the rest.

I need that control, especially with Milking and Cheese Making. Quality isn't everything when you have more animals then milkers.

I am not following, when I am milking animals I usually have have three or four running on 'milk creature' and one making cheese. Five workshops in total, and I usually have all the farmers use cheese making and milking. This works quite well with no drawbacks. How do you do it?

[dree12]

I put my milking industry right next to my kitchens and close to the aboveground. In some larger forts, there are enough animals to use up all 4-5 workshops without rest. To increase speed without expanding unnessesarily, I restrict the workshops to higher skilled milkers and set the rest cheesemaking. Without the ability to control which milkers can make cheese, I'll have empty work for the entire time.

[iron_general]

Personally I like to see each dwarf haveing a skill in his/her profession and specialization. For example Mechanics, siege oporating and engineering would all exericse the engineering skill. A higher engineering skill would increase the amount of expirience gain for related tasks. A stoneworker skill might help with masonry, stone crafting and engraving. I'm not sure how this multiplier would be calculated (trained and increase expirience), but it would be realistic if a legindary mechanic only had to built a handful of siege componants before becoming adept seeing as a seige engine is just a large mechanism.

[Sutremaine]

You wouldn't fleece a sheep if you didn't know how to spin the cloth.

Sure you would, you don't need to know how to work a spinning jenny to handle a pair of shears and a hundred pounds of animal. All you need to do is collect as much material as possible without distressing the animal.

[IT 000]

You wouldn't fleece a sheep if you didn't know how to spin the cloth.

Sure you would, you don't need to know how to work a spinning jenny to handle a pair of shears and a hundred pounds of animal. All you need to do is collect as much material as possible without distressing the animal.

There would be no reason you would collect it without knowing how to spin it. A farmer from pre-1400 would know how to do both if he was raising animals.

I put my milking industry right next to my kitchens and close to the aboveground. In some larger forts, there are enough animals to use up all 4-5 workshops without rest. To increase speed without expanding unnessesarily, I restrict the workshops to higher skilled milkers and set the rest cheesemaking. Without the ability to control which milkers can make cheese, I'll have empty work for the entire time.

Point taken, but if you have a skilled animal processor, they would be skilled milkers and skilled cheesemakers, quicker at both jobs. Plus having seven to eight dwarves operating the workshops (Which is usually the number I have when my cheese industry hits full boom) is plenty to prevent most distractions, such as breaks or eating, to stall your industry. Even with both labors turned on.

Personally I like to see each dwarf haveing a skill in his/her profession and specialization. For example Mechanics, siege oporating and engineering would all exericse the engineering skill. A higher engineering skill would increase the amount of expirience gain for related tasks. A stoneworker skill might help with masonry, stone crafting and engraving. I'm not sure how this multiplier would be calculated (trained and increase expirience), but it would be realistic if a legindary mechanic only had to built a handful of siege componants before becoming adept seeing as a seige engine is just a large mechanism.

I like this intertwined skills idea and it makes sense.

[PartyBear]

What's worse is that it takes away from the possibility of getting something useful. Assuming that every job has the same chance of showing up on a migrant, you are more likely to get a useless cannon fodder farmer then a useful competent mason.

I only agree with this part, but I think it could be taken care of by rolling for the "class" of labor first, and then the migrant's actual skills.  That would combine the huge number of farming jobs for the first roll, making skilled artisans more likely to show up.  On the other hand, most people of the time weren't skilled artisans, so maybe the weight towards farm labor is intentional.

[IT 000]

Good point, still with my simplification farmers would still have 9-12 jobs that they could be. So the weight would still be there. Said farmers would also know more then just milling.

[Uristocrat]

... You said stone detailing should be two with the same skill... not mining.  Mining was like 3 skills all different.

I think the point was so that you could have the good miners mine ore (so that you get more ore or gems--bad miners don't leave as much ore behind after mining) and have the unskilled miners mine stone or soil until they learned.  Same with smoothing/engraving.  It's not a matter of whether they could or couldn't do it (they can), but whether or not you want them to.

Of course, it seems like the chance of getting a gem is 100% these days, so that part might be unnecessary.

[King_of_the_weasels]

... You said stone detailing should be two with the same skill... not mining.  Mining was like 3 skills all different.

I think the point was so that you could have the good miners mine ore (so that you get more ore or gems--bad miners don't leave as much ore behind after mining) and have the unskilled miners mine stone or soil until they learned.  Same with smoothing/engraving.  It's not a matter of whether they could or couldn't do it (they can), but whether or not you want them to.

Of course, it seems like the chance of getting a gem is 100% these days, so that part might be unnecessary.

Sorry I attributed my you said to the wrong person. 

Also you just explained how the game is now.