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Author Topic: Alternative energy sources  (Read 19910 times)

lemon10

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2011, 03:10:51 pm »

Dunno about nuclear, despite it being clean in the short run (excluding bad accidents), the nuclear waste which lasts near forever may make it worse in the long run then coal/oil (and probably more expensive too), since coal/oil only effects the environment for so long.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2011, 03:12:23 pm »

The way I see it:

Oil and Natural Gas Dominance -----> Nuclear Fission and Fusion Dominance ----> Wind, Solar, Hydroelectric, and Geothermal Dominance
                                            ^                                                                                                    ^
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freeformschooler

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2011, 03:13:53 pm »

Dunno about nuclear, despite it being clean in the short run (excluding bad accidents), the nuclear waste which lasts near forever may make it worse in the long run then coal/oil (and probably more expensive too), since coal/oil only effects the environment for so long.

This is the main problem. There is just no good way to get rid of nuclear waste that does last forever and is very harmful to come in contact with. The world is only so large, and you can only dump it in the finite deserts for so long...
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Ancre

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2011, 03:14:33 pm »

I kinda agree with MetalSlimeHunt.

I think we need to move on toward a source of renewable energy, because let's be honest, fossile energy only last so long, and we're eating reserves faster than they replenish, which is never a good plan for the future. I don't know more to comment any further though.
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Darvi

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2011, 03:14:50 pm »

Thing is until we run out of oil in a few decades we probably won't move along for a while.


Dunno about nuclear, despite it being clean in the short run (excluding bad accidents), the nuclear waste which lasts near forever may make it worse in the long run then coal/oil (and probably more expensive too), since coal/oil only effects the environment for so long.

This is the main problem. There is just no good way to get rid of nuclear waste that does last forever and is very harmful to come in contact with. The world is only so large, and you can only dump it in the finite deserts for so long...
And putting it on a rocket and dumping it into the sun or something won't work either afaik. Would pay to see that  though.


Ya, double ninja'd
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Nadaka

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2011, 03:17:20 pm »

I would like to voice my support for nuclear power despite having not checked the Japan thread since I evacuated for the (possibility of a) tsunami.
The general populace lacks an understanding of nuclear power and assumes it's bad because of the bombs.

Well, there's little uranium, much of it in unstable countries. It needs to be shipped and refined without escaping into the underworld for use in dirty bombs. It then needs to be used safely for a period, then stored forever, or until reclamation is perfected. It may be very safe, but the consequences of failure at any point are extremely dire.

I personally don't think they are all that dangerous. It's just that the worst case scenario is far more severe than other power sources.

Someone mentioned solar power using molten salt; it's safe, can function 24 hours a day, and doesn't require exotic materials. I like it.

I'm most excited about geothermal. It's cheaper than coal in most places and pretty much can't go wrong. Note that you don't need a volcano; anyplace will work if you go deep enough. So yeah, magma.

Then there's orbital solar. It's expensive for many reasons (to-orbit costs, repair, exotic materials), and it requires large rectennas on the ground. However, in a good orbit, it provides power for all but 8 hours a year and is probably pretty much permanent.

The US, Canada and Australia have some of the biggest Uranium reserves IIRC?

Reclamation of nuclear waste can be nearly perfect. Run through the right feeder-breeder and the final 2 waste products are easily handled. One is nearly inert and no more dangerous than most rocks, and the other has such a short half life that it will burn itself out after 50 or so years. Some of these next generation designs may be able to do it without removing the fuel from the reactor.

But yes, solar thermal salt facilities are great, with only a few problems. 1: they are fragile, sandstorms, snowfall, hail strong wind, tornadoes, etc can damage them. 2: they only work well in deserts, so they will need a major upgrade to power distribution. 3: salt quickens rust for most metals, so we are not sure of what the maintenance costs are going to be in the long term yet.

Orbital solar power will most likely only an option if we build them from materials harvest outside the earth.
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Phmcw

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2011, 03:24:16 pm »

No one mentioned that at this rate we'll only have 45 year worth of uranium 235 left. If you want to keep nuclear power and expand the output, we have to switch to next gen reactor quickly.

One point that annoy me to no end is that ecologist focus a lot on "no nuclear energy" and not on "we want a safe nuclear energy". We need energy and the way we harvest nuclear power is nowhere near optimal.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2011, 03:26:29 pm »

The big thing is going to be fusion power. We have an absurdly large supply of materials for fusion (I'm talking several thousand years here.), and that'll give us plenty of time to go fully renewable in the meantime.
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Taricus

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2011, 03:27:23 pm »

If we get around to actually doing it...
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2011, 03:29:20 pm »

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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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RedKing

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2011, 03:30:54 pm »

Dunno about nuclear, despite it being clean in the short run (excluding bad accidents), the nuclear waste which lasts near forever may make it worse in the long run then coal/oil (and probably more expensive too), since coal/oil only effects the environment for so long.

This is the main problem. There is just no good way to get rid of nuclear waste that does last forever and is very harmful to come in contact with. The world is only so large, and you can only dump it in the finite deserts for so long...

Actually, there is. We have this rather large atomic-level incinerator positioned about 93 million miles away....

The problem is that no one will agree to putting nuclear waste on a rocket and firing it into space, because if there's a malfunction and the rocket goes boom in atmosphere....well, shit.

Which is why we need rail guns. Compress the waste into slugs, maybe mixed with some ferrous material to make it magnetic, and then sling that shit on a one-way trip to the Sun. If engineered properly, it would be extremely unlikely to disintegrate in atmosphere. (The ideal launch site would somewhere like the Moon...far lower velocity required, no atmospheric friction, etc.) But then you have to get it to the Moon.

Okay, so we need a space elevator and rail guns....
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Nadaka

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2011, 03:31:55 pm »

IIRC 45 years of fuel is for stuff that has already been mined and processed, there is quite a bit more in known high quality orefields that have not been mined. But yes, next gen reactors are pretty much required for the long term.

Fusion isn't even on my radar, not until we get experimental over unity results. Then its still going to take a hell of a lot of science/engineering to make it practical.
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Taricus

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white_darkness

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2011, 04:17:32 pm »

Actually, potentially billions of years of fuel for fusion.  Just using lithium.  Going down to hydrogen isotopes, well, fusion would probably make electrolysis of water an efficient fuel source and then we have these great big bloody oceans.

There's also work going on for fuel rod reclamation and reissue, since fission fuel rods are apparently deemed unusable after 5% utilization...not very efficient that.
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Bdthemag

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Re: Alternative energy sources
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2011, 04:27:04 pm »

Come on people what about "Human Sources"? You know you want a car that runs on Urine.
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