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[Urist Imiknorris]

I think I'll pencil in Cthulhu, just to make a point.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Right now the main choices are mild fascism (Dem), strong fascism (Rep) and crazy fascism (Tea)?

For the last time, the Tea Party isn't a political party, it's a political movement associated with the more reactionary members of the Republican Party.

In any case, I think that the the USA's poltical problems would be lessened if the Libertarian Party, Green Party, and Constitution Party managed to reach electoral status (I picked the three of them because they're the largest ones out of the main two). Relegating it to just the Democratic and Republican Parties keeps people from having a wide range of choices in elections, and has gotten us stuck between two idiots more than once (See: 2008 Elections). With five main canidates instead of two, we'd have a much lower chance of that happening.

[Vigilant]

Right now the main choices are mild fascism (Dem), strong fascism (Rep) and crazy fascism (Tea)?

For the last time, the Tea Party isn't a political party, it's a political movement associated with the more reactionary members of the Republican Party.

In any case, I think that the the USA's poltical problems would be lessened if the Libertarian Party, Green Party, and Constitution Party managed to reach electoral status (I picked the three of them because they're the largest ones out of the main two). Relegating it to just the Democratic and Republican Parties keeps people from having a wide range of choices in elections, and has gotten us stuck between two idiots more than once (See: 2008 Elections). With five main canidates instead of two, we'd have a much lower chance of that happening.

Current electoral system makes it nearly impossible to have more than two major parties, unfortunately. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law

[Aqizzar]

On another note, I found this article interesting.

The marines confirmed that Bradley Manning was made to relinquish his boxer shorts for about seven hours due to a "situationally driven" event.

It's not so much that it's cruel, but more that I can't think of any "situationally driven" event that would require you to give up your underwear.

Now, I can't perfectly confirm this, but the story I've heard repeated of what happened was:  One of the times they were going through Manning's cell looking for stuff to remove on grounds of being a possible suicide-tool, Manning joked that if he actually wanted to kill himself, he could tie his boxers around his neck.  While I respect the guy for trying to stick up for himself in any little spiteful way he can manage (and being a sarcastic prick is about the only power that can never be taken away), I can tell you straight up that joking with your jailer's never leads to anything good.


And yeah, PJ Crowley pressured into resigning, for pointing out the entirely obvious, that Manning is being jailed in a way totally unreflective of either his crime or the military justice system.  The more Presidencies I look back through, the more I'm convinced there really some kind of mind-control device built into the White House.  In seriousness, it's a combination of admitting no wrong, using a lot of same low-key advisers the Bush administration did (especially in the Pentagon), and basically doing everything in their verbal power to maintain the wall against legal-culpability every administration shoulders up.  In the end, protecting the rights and legal standard of military imprisonment and justice is a lower priority that making absolutely sure there can be no legal-precedent for trying the federal government for an unlawful action.

[RedKing]

My real fear for 2012 is that all this bullshit is going to massively damp down support among Democratic demographics (really...if you were an idealistic college kid that busted your ass for Obama, and then see this...and graduate into one of the worst job markets in decades...are you really gonna bust your hump in 2012 to get him re-elected?), and combined with the Tea Party thinking that they're actually the ones responsible for all this rather than just the lucky beneficiaries, is going to lead to something like a Palin/Bachmann ticket in 2012 actually getting elected.


At which point my family and I will become Swedes. Or Finns. Or wherever the hell will have us, 'cause things would get most unsavory for us in Jesusland.

[Zangi]

So, a question.  Is Mannings being treated as if he is guilty before even stepping into court?  Or since he is 'military', they can treat him as they please?

America, trading freedom and justice for security?

[Nadaka]

Yeh...

I don't like the idea of leaving America because it is becoming unAmerican.

I can't say I want things to go back to "the good old days", because we never really lived up to our ideals in one way or another.

I would rather that America get over this bullshit and remember a thing or two about liberty and justice and just be a better place.

[Phmcw]

So, a question.  Is Mannings being treated as if he is guilty before even stepping into court?  Or since he is 'military', they can treat him as they please?

America, trading freedom and justice for security?

Security from what? Al Quaida was just a frigging terrorist group aka lots of idiots who knew how to make a bomb.
You don't need to throw all that to stop them. Ok 9/11 was impressive and horrible, but seriously, they were never a threat for the US as a whole.
We had terrorists groups active on our ground for years and never needed to go at such length.

America is trading freedom and justice for a wasted international reputation, huge national debt and a big whooping can of nothing.

[Cthulhu]

I don't like the idea of leaving America because it's becoming unamerican either, but I do like the idea of becoming Swedish or Finnish because Sweden and Finland are cool.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I don't think anyone can really deny that the USA has a good deal of problems, but that's no reason to cut and run. I like this country. I certainly wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world. Socitetal problems can be fixed, and I think the potential exists to do so.

[Sergius]

America, trading freedom and justice for security theater?

Fix'd it up for ya

[Criptfeind]

In the end, protecting the rights and legal standard of military imprisonment and justice is a lower priority that making absolutely sure there can be no legal-precedent for trying the federal government for an unlawful action.

Damn shame, they would not need to do that if such a precedent was already here. Presumably it would make them act so that they don't need to be jailed.

[Aqizzar]

So, a question.  Is Mannings being treated as if he is guilty before even stepping into court?  Or since he is 'military', they can treat him as they please?

It's basically both.  The Justice Department has every intention the hammer on the guy, they just haven't figured out how yet, and are more than happy to let him stew in a hole and would really prefer everyone stop paying attention.  Meanwhile, the military justice system is quite used to the idea that they are completely beyond prosecution for misconduct, certainly in treatment of their own.  It sounds like they've taken Justice's attitude about Manning as a blank check to do whatever they want to him, so long as there's still a whole body left to put on trial.

(really...if you were an idealistic college kid that busted your ass for Obama, and then see this...and graduate into one of the worst job markets in decades...are you really gonna bust your hump in 2012 to get him re-elected?)

Gotta put my partisan cap back on for a minute.  As exactly the person you described, yes, yes I am going to bust my hump again.  To avoid exactly the outcome you described, not least because it is an either-or proposition; I'm a realist about elections.  Whatever my objections with Obama's management (and I certainly have a lot of them), not only do I still align with him more than almost any realistically conceivable opponent, but he's not the only guy running.  With him rides a good chunk of the Congress, and down-ticket races for state offices.

The biggest possibility people always overlook in elections is exactly what you've described - not people changing their vote, but just plain not voting.  That's what I bust my hump about, especially my state goes down the long dark road of making it legally harder to vote.

[Phmcw]

I admire the guys that invented this system. Peoples vote for poeple they don't trust, who push policies they don't like, to avoid having the other side winning.
These guys were genius.

[Leafsnail]

Now, I can't perfectly confirm this, but the story I've heard repeated of what happened was:  One of the times they were going through Manning's cell looking for stuff to remove on grounds of being a possible suicide-tool, Manning joked that if he actually wanted to kill himself, he could tie his boxers around his neck.  While I respect the guy for trying to stick up for himself in any little spiteful way he can manage (and being a sarcastic prick is about the only power that can never be taken away), I can tell you straight up that joking with your jailer's never leads to anything good.

Hehe.  That's actually kindof understandable if a bit silly.  Fair enough, although you'd think they'd have some kind of policy on this (supply them with special, overstarched underwear?).