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[1v0ry_k1ng]

I was wondering whether anyone else is finding their adventuring spoilt by the current injury system?

at the moment, the only way to kill someone is by

a) damaging the brain (instant death)

or

b) damaging a large number of body parts in a very short period of time (bleed to death)

nothing else has any real effect because all wounds stop bleeding extremely quickly, and damage upon most internal organs does not cause death.

if anyone can remember back to the injury system of good old df_27, damage to internal organs and lungs was Serious Buisness, and bleeding to death was a common fate of those being attacked by spears and pikes.

combat has really just become

1) reduce enemies movement speed by putting them in pain/removing their ability to stand
2) repeatedly strike enemy in head until a successful hit causes insta- death.

does anyone else cry themselves to sleep that combat isnt as fun as the old days (even if we can now aim attacks)?

[Supercharazad]

If the damage system was more realistic (YOU CAN'T FUCKING STOVE IN SKULLS WITH YOUR FISTS!), I would be very happy.

[Shook]

Isn't that the main ways you die in real life too? Barring old age, of course. In reality, most premature deaths are, in one way or another, caused by:
a) Suffocation (including drowning)
b) Bleeding (internally too)
c) Brain trauma (or beheading, if you want)
d) Infections (and disease)

And all of these can happen in DF. That being said, i am somewhat irked at the low killing power of blunt weapons, as well as the general ineffectiveness of bruising internal organs. If you took a hammer strike to the liver in real life, you'd collapse in pain and suffer severe internal bleeding. In DF, you go "ow" and chop the hammerman's head off, possibly with some pain involved, but nothing crippling. Likewise with kidneys; they supposedly hurt like all hell to get hit in, and a ruptured kidney bleeds A LOT. In DF, my adventurer easily survived getting stabbed in the kidney by a spear.

In other words, a severe blunt impact should rupture internal organs, not just bruise them. Not always, naturally, but it should happen sometimes. Also, organ damage should probably be a tad more severe, and skulls should break less easily, if it were to be totally realistic. Otherwise i'm mostly happy with the combat. ESPECIALLY how you have to deal with large creatures in a more realistic manner. The classic i-stab-your-toe HP-draining combat bugs me, so being charged and smashed by them in DF is almost refreshing. Almost.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

shook: I get the impression you are new to dwarf fortress... the older versions had a more functional (if less complex) injury system.

[Shook]

I am new, very much so. Joined in .18 i believe. Forgive me for not knowing how stuff worked before, but i'm not the kind of guy who digs through the old versions of a game, in order to be up to date with the history of it. If the previous versions included the types of injuries i mentioned (blunt ruptures organs etc), then yeah, bring back the old injury system and such. I do believe that you don't have to be a grizzled veteran in order to suggest additions/changes, though. Even though i did overread the part about organ damage being serious before.

[thvaz]

I am very old in DF and I agree that the new system needs some tweaks, but apart from that it's much better than the old system.

[Nikov]

I like everything about the current combat system except for nerve damage. It needs to heal. I don't care if it takes a full year for my dwarf to recover from having a nerve cut in one hand, I just wish it would. Perhaps golden salve could heal nerve damage?

Beyond that minor gripe, the injury system is great and I don't see the problem. A few good stabs to the chest leaves your victim writhing on the ground. If you choose to keep hacking at his *iron helm* until you finally win the RNG lottery, that's your choice. All I can say to an adventurer is maim and move on, then go back when you've cleared out the immediate surroundings.

[MasterMorality]

Internal bleeding, neck breaking should be added. I don't know if DF at the moment considers minor and major arteries and veins, or just all under one heading...

While you can't stave in a skull with your fist, it's possible to kill a person with it - bleeding in the brain for example. Donkey punching a person can result in death.

Internal damage should play a bigger part, as stated before - organs that take a beating like that hurt a fucking lot.  Rupturing would be a nice addition.
If a bone is broken, it would be interesting to see, for example a rib, go through an organ.

[Shook]

If a bone is broken, it would be interesting to see, for example a rib, go through an organ.

That already happens, somewhat frequently even. The only way a hammerdude can kill you right now is a headbash, or a lucky shot to the torso that blasts a rib through your heart/lungs. Or maybe break the upper spine, resulting in total paralysis and suffocation, but that falls under a headbash.

[Funk]

rib do go through organs some times,sady only when there broken.
neck breaking can be done.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

Beyond that minor gripe, the injury system is great and I don't see the problem. A few good stabs to the chest leaves your victim writhing on the ground. If you choose to keep hacking at his *iron helm* until you finally win the RNG lottery, that's your choice. All I can say to an adventurer is maim and move on, then go back when you've cleared out the immediate surroundings.

do you have experience of the previous system? did you read the first post?

previously it was possible to receive a mortal wound, fight on for a minute and then die

now 99% of the time, a wound instantly kills you, or the wound stops bleeding at the speed of superhuman healing and you will not die from it. its possible to have almost every bone broken, your skin and interior organs mashed to paste and still live- as long as it happens gradually over a period of time (eg. 5 minutes of constant play) and not all at once. only damage to the head and heart actually has the capacity to kill. this is a major step back from the previous system, and is not remotely realistic. to clarify, I am not saying the DF inury system is bad- its the best of any game of its kind- I'm saying its broken, if fixed is the realism we had previously.

[minno]

I think the most important thing to add right now is simulation of internal bleeding.  Right now the only ways for someone to bleed are for them to have bruises, which aren't fatal, or external bleeding, which can almost never be caused by blunt attacks.

[Jeoshua]

In reality it is possible to kill a man by beating him on the soles of his feet for a day straight.  The cytotoxins that occur from cellular death from the bruised soles cause general poisoning of the body, eventually leading to total liver shutdown and thereby death.

In DF... you can cut off both a person's feet, whack on the stubs for a year of in-game, and they will not die.

[Elvisdogs]

I have no idea what you people are talking about.

I have a sylvan elf adventerer guy going who killed a dragon in an epic fight with a spellwood club. (Or rather he beat the dragon into unconciousness and it passed out.) He went from Legendary Maceman 26 to 34. I was literally jumping up and down in pure glee.

Eventully I got bored used his knife to cut the throat.

[dirty foot]

I came into this thread thinking it'd be about the total lack of ability to heal oneself in adventure mode. I don't mind the difficulty in killing people, I just get insanely pissed at two things:

1) It's much easier for me to get killed than it is for an enemy. It's as though they are all perfect dodging machines. I walk into range of an archer, and it seems like every g'damn time, it's a throat shot and I'm on the ground.

2) If I'm not killed, there's NO way for me to mitigate injuries, except for waiting them out. Why can't I apply a cast? Why bother having traits like "focus" in adventure mode? There is literally no reason to get anything but straight damage and dodge in adventure mode. I can't even go to the MANY doctors/surgeons in the game and get fixed up. Instead, like a hillbilly, I walk around til it heals, I die, or it falls off. The option is already in Dwarf Fortress mode...why exactly does adventure not have it?