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[Tellemurius]

last heard from reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/us-japan-quake-idUSTRE72A0SS20110316

Guys i appreciate all the work you guys did to dig up news of japan and prove what is true and false, i also thank Vector for sharing stories that proves Japan isn't in chaos.

[Aklyon]

Everyone except Japan is freaking out about Japan.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Aqizzar]

Everyone except Japan is freaking out about Japan.

If anything, that's kind of a big part of the problem.  Japan, as both a cultural thing and a governmental policy thing, seem to be dead-set on downplaying absolutely every critical event until they humble themselves right into a radioactive grave.  Some things are worth panicking over.

[nenjin]

Which is why I've been a little....suspicious of official Japanese reports about the depth of the problem.

[SalmonGod]

There is very much to be said, though, for not making problems worse through the typical panic and opportunistic douchebaggery.  It looks to me like everyone recognizes the scale of their problems, and is doing what they can to contribute to one another's well-being.  If stoic humility causes restraint in fully measuring up to a problem, I'd still take that over the usual tendency to make a problem worse while doing nothing constructive at all.

[Nikov]

IIRC, Japanese citizens have two opinions. An external, harmonious opinion, and an internal, conflicting opinion (clearly, Gestalt psychology won't take off there). Inside, a Japanese person might hate crowding on the subway, but outside, he politely packs in while the train attendants stuff people onboard. I'm not sure where I read this, however, so don't hold me to it. But it is a uniquely powerful cultural trait for surviving things like this. Compare the stories out of Japan from those out of New Orleans, and we have a sort of cool, disciplined populace suffering the unspeakable and an emotional mob ready to lash out at anyone they can blame.

[SalmonGod]

Consistent with the common belief that eastern cultures favor introversion while western cultures favor extroversion.

[Nikov]

Being consistent with a stereotype neither makes it true nor untrue, but it does deserve scrutiny and proof.

A quick bit of google-fu reveals an article on the subject expressing a similar sentiment. http://www.japantoday.com/category/commentary/view/emotional-intelligence-%E2%80%93-a-harmonious-balance

[SalmonGod]

The comments under that article are more telling than the article itself.  Someone goes about describing how eastern influence leads a little girl to exercise her individual beliefs in a passive manner that allows for social harmony.  First comment denounces such behavior as weakness.  I wonder which disaster scene that commentor would fit into?

Sorry if some of my personal prejudices are leaking out (look at me apologizing for this!  weakness!!).  I'm just rather sick of this shit, for lack of a better way of putting it.  Ready to move to Japan.

[Vector]

Frankly, I prefer the disharmony where I get to have a job.  The thing about obsessive social harmony is that it doesn't leave space for outliers or innovation.

The nail that sticks up gets hammered down, and all that.

[SalmonGod]

That's taking it to an extreme... which happens.  I don't agree with that proverb.  And if you look at Japanese culture, I don't think they do, either.  The chinese, on the other hand...

I'm just sick of the prevailing attitude in my culture that disagreement means the right or even the obligation to disrupt, and whoever disrupts the hardest deserves to get their way in the end, while anyone who refuses to join the arm flapping and screaming must be weak and deserves to be tread upon.

[Vector]

Spoiler: Off-topic cultural discussion (click to show/hide)

The reason why I quoted that proverb is actually because it's Japanese, and very, very common.  No, not "the squeaky wheel gets the grease."  "The nail that sticks up gets pounded down."

I've read that, in Japanese culture, if someone says they like your tie then you're expected to stop wearing it--it means that it stuck out from the other ties.  When I was learning the language, I was taught to never express an opinion as true and preface everything with "it seems," especially as a woman.  Female students at the other school were chastised for saying any negative statement stronger than "Oh, my!"  This includes saying things like "drat."  In any circumstance.

In Chinese culture, they have sayings like "gold does not fear the fire" and so on.  My interpretation was that it was actually far more individualistic.  They don't have the same social hierarchies, rituals, and expectations of perfect social harmony.  It's hierarchical, but not in the same way.  Two politeness levels instead of four or so.  No bowing.  No need to memorize seating arrangement charts so that you will always know precisely where you need to sit, based on your personal ranking.

None of this "shikata ga nai" crap.  That literally means "there is no traditional way to do it."  Idiomatically, it means "it's impossible."


I don't know.  I think we're on different sides of a divide, where on my side I'm enraged at the status quo and want to disrupt everything, and you're... tired?  It's not that people who don't join should be tread upon; it's that I feel that I, and other people, will be tread upon--in a particularly negative way--if I'm not disruptive.

This may just be due to different life stages, though.

[Tellemurius]

Vector, not to hate on you or anything but this is a thread about Japan's current predicament not its culture.

[Vector]

Vector, not to hate on you or anything but this is a thread about Japan's current predicament not its culture.

Sorry, that was probably inappropriate.  I'll go spoiler it up.

[SalmonGod]

Culture debate was my fault.  I'll take it to another thread.