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[parlor_tricks]

Dragons. More precisely - Dragon EGGS.
Adventure mode thread which provided me with inspiration: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78758.0
Short version: Adventurer kills dragon, steals 3 eggs. What does he do with them?

The thread got me to thinking -
We have the eggs, can we build a working dragon hatchery?

I'm guessing we could steal eggs in adventure mode, and deposit them somewhere. Then in adventure mode, we build a fortress around it.
One of the issues was that if you did it this way, the goods would scatter and disappear when you embark.
I believe that we could get around this by putting the eggs in a lair (I believe there was a recent thread discussing precisely this.)
Then we just need to fertilize them, and then have them hatch.

The other alternative is to have a fort go on forever, capture every creature that attacks you, till you finally get 2 dragons, or failing that, embark on a Dragon's lair (but whats the fun in that!)

Few things that came to mind -
Dragons will likely have to be modded if we want to be able to train them.
How do eggs hatch? - Do they need a male dragon to fertilize them first, or a a female dragon to incubate them? Both?
If we stole all the dragon eggs in the world and deposited them near the lair of a dragon, would they hatch?
How do dragon's lay eggs? Do they need a nest box?

Discuss?

[Girlinhat]

Currently, I believe, all creatures need a nest box to lay eggs.  So, dragons and rocs will by default in their lair, 'cause that's their lair, but it's not usable.  It has to be in a lair, sat upon by its layer, to hatch.  And it's impossible to place an egg into a nest box aside from actually laying.

While a good idea, the issue is actually getting the egg to hatch once obtained.  Probably have more luck running a fort and catching two dragons.

[irdsm]

Just maybe an adventurer could put an egg in a nest box. Embark on the lair, build a nestbox, abandon, steal eggs, put eggs in nestbox, reclaim,???

[LordSlowpoke]

Hmm.

Let's recap. You want an adventurer to capture dragons, base a fort around the said dragons, and for what? A dragon hatchery?

No sir, I don't like it. Do you have any idea how much do they have to grow to produce enough meat, fats, etc. to be profitable? We're better off with farming merpeople at this point. But your idea is quite well put, I have to agree with that.

Also, +dragon egg omelette+. Yeah.

[xeivous]

Hmm.

Let's recap. You want an adventurer to capture dragons, base a fort around the said dragons, and for what? A dragon hatchery?

No sir, I don't like it. Do you have any idea how much do they have to grow to produce enough meat, fats, etc. to be profitable? We're better off with farming merpeople at this point. But your idea is quite well put, I have to agree with that.

Also, +dragon egg omelette+. Yeah.

Since when did anything have to be practical?

[Naryar]

Unsure about that, but I think you'll be better attracting, catching and taming two different sex dragons in a fortress.

[Psieye]

Just maybe an adventurer could put an egg in a nest box. Embark on the lair, build a nestbox, abandon, steal eggs, put eggs in nestbox, reclaim,???

No, you missed the part where a dragon needs to sit on the nest box after the eggs are in the nest box. Given wildlife don't use nest boxes anymore, how are you going to convince the dragon to sit there when it sees a building to destroy?

[irdsm]

Just maybe an adventurer could put an egg in a nest box. Embark on the lair, build a nestbox, abandon, steal eggs, put eggs in nestbox, reclaim,???

No, you missed the part where a dragon needs to sit on the nest box after the eggs are in the nest box. Given wildlife don't use nest boxes anymore, how are you going to convince the dragon to sit there when it sees a building to destroy?

2 things:

1) Are you positive the dragon has to sit on it? Sitting may be a byproduct of laying eggs rather than a requirement. I haven't seen the results of any tests on the subject yet.

2) I'm not sure animal pathing to nestboxes is entirely removed. If it's within a certain amount of distance they may still path (I haven't done any testing nor seen the results of any) nvm the update explicitely mentions it being removed

[Psieye]

Just maybe an adventurer could put an egg in a nest box. Embark on the lair, build a nestbox, abandon, steal eggs, put eggs in nestbox, reclaim,???

No, you missed the part where a dragon needs to sit on the nest box after the eggs are in the nest box. Given wildlife don't use nest boxes anymore, how are you going to convince the dragon to sit there when it sees a building to destroy?

2 things:

1) Are you positive the dragon has to sit on it? Sitting may be a byproduct of laying eggs rather than a requirement. I haven't seen the results of any tests on the subject yet.

2) I'm not sure animal pathing to nestboxes is entirely removed. If it's within a certain amount of distance they may still path (I haven't done any testing nor seen the results of any) nvm the update explicitely mentions it being removed

1) Anecotal evidence, so it's not conclusive. Try it - it's a simple enough test: get some tame egg layer to dump eggs then butcher it and wait a season to see if the eggs hatch.

[xeivous]

Just maybe an adventurer could put an egg in a nest box. Embark on the lair, build a nestbox, abandon, steal eggs, put eggs in nestbox, reclaim,???

No, you missed the part where a dragon needs to sit on the nest box after the eggs are in the nest box. Given wildlife don't use nest boxes anymore, how are you going to convince the dragon to sit there when it sees a building to destroy?

2 things:

1) Are you positive the dragon has to sit on it? Sitting may be a byproduct of laying eggs rather than a requirement. I haven't seen the results of any tests on the subject yet.

2) I'm not sure animal pathing to nestboxes is entirely removed. If it's within a certain amount of distance they may still path (I haven't done any testing nor seen the results of any) nvm the update explicitely mentions it being removed

1) Anecotal evidence, so it's not conclusive. Try it - it's a simple enough test: get some tame egg layer to dump eggs then butcher it and wait a season to see if the eggs hatch.

Half of all evidence is anecdotal.

[eepkeep]

Are you positive the dragon has to sit on it? Sitting may be a byproduct of laying eggs rather than a requirement. I haven't seen the results of any tests on the subject yet.

A male of the egg-laying species needs to fertilize the egg for it to hatch. Try it: get a few hens on embark and get them to lay eggs, then leave them be. Do any of them hatch? Ninja'd

No, you missed the part where a dragon needs to sit on the nest box after the eggs are in the nest box. Given wildlife don't use nest boxes anymore, how are you going to convince the dragon to sit there when it sees a building to destroy?

And that's what a dungeon master is for. Not sure how hard it is to get one though. I hardly ever have a fort that lasts over three years, and most of the ones that do are quasi-hermit fortresses. Despite being home to some epic projects, they still wouldn't be able to house over fifteen dwarves without collapsing on themselves.

Considering how long you might be searching for female dragons that have laid eggs in adventurer mode (not to mention the time it would take to prepare an adventurer skilled enough to sneak past or strong enough to defeat a dragon), I think it would be far more convenient to bypass that part entirely and simply wait for opposite sex dragons to arrive at your dungeon-master-containing fortress. Yes, it could take quite a long time, but you don't exactly have any better chances in adventurer mode unless the guy with the dragon eggs uploads a save for us all. And even if someone actually manages to get a dragon hatchery running, dragons take a while to grow and megabeast eggs don't sell for much so I doubt it could be made profitable quickly. Then again, the only reason we're actually doing this is to get the privilege to feed our dwarves +dragon egg omelet+s, keep pet dragons and satisfy our own ego.

tl;dr sounds like a dwarfy idea to me. I'll get on it.


EDIT: A simple modding solution to this would be to switch [PET_EXOTIC] to [PETVALUE:X][PET] in the dragon's raws to get past having to get a dungeon master, but some would call that cheating. Also, an egg can't be hatched after it's been taken out of the nest so we can scratch the adventurer idea entirely.

[Sphalerite]

I recently embarked on a site where a female Roc already had a nest.  There were Roc eggs in the nest - I don't know if they were there when I first embarked or if she laid them early on.  As soon as I built a nest box, the Roc abandoned her nest and laid eggs in the nest box.  None of the eggs ever hatched, most likely because there were no male Rocs on the map.  Also, I was unable to catch and tame the female Roc because creatures with the 'current resident' status are magically immune to cage traps somehow.

I've never actually had anything hatch from an egg, but I haven't played the current version much yet.  I am under the impression that to have an egg hatch, you need to have a male of the species on the map (don't know if it's when the egg is laid or when it's due to hatch that this matters) and the egg needs to remain in the nest box undisturbed (possibly with the mother sitting on it the entire time).

To get around the lack of a Dungeon Master, you need to change [PET_EXOTIC] to [PET], not [PETVALUE:x].

[parlor_tricks]

What if I maimed and incapacitated a dragon in adventure mode, built a fort around it...

OR, OR

Get an adventurer, hunt down female dragons, get their eggs. Then find a male dragon's lair, plant the eggs and then embark.
That could work.

The waiting for 2 dragons is off the table. May as well wait for 2 compatible anythings to attack. I could have WAR Rocs in that case.

Hmm, then we have to get over the pet exotic tag.

Anyway, I'm genning a massive world with high savagery and high sites and high everything to see how many dragons I can get.

[Psieye]

Oh the dungeon master thing I can answer at least - bugged, will never appear. Edit those raws.

[thegoatgod_pan]

There is also a major issue with taming dragons, even by changing PET_EXOTIC to PET--they still breathe fire.

I tamed a dragon that I had been using in the arena. Previously I had been doing a simple cage trap recapture scheme which worked every time.  After it was tame it was no longer vulnerable to cage traps. Like all pets, the dragon headed straight to the nearest meeting area, no biting anyone, but unlike all pets, it was periodically breathing fire nonetheless.  7 dwarves melted. The military killed it even though I couldn't target it directly. I figured it was a feature (e.g. dragons are too wily to tame, they just fool you into thinking they are your friends, and then poof--fried dwarves everywhere)