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[Darvi]

Wait, what?

[Criptfeind]

The majority of people are short mind followers! I have the true vision to see us being lead astray! MOST ARE WRONG AND I AM RIGHT!

[CoughDrop]

How can the majority be wrong on what people want to do.

Really? You should be able to find some counter-examples to that yourself.

I belive that people have a much to high opinion of themselves.

Here is something funny.

A survey was attached to the SAT exams (taken by approximately one million students per year) asking the students to rate themselves relative to the median of the sample (rather than the average peer) on a number of vague positive characteristics. In ratings of leadership ability 70% of the students put themselves above the median and in ability to get on well with others 85% put themselves above the median and 25% rated themselves in the top 1%.

I'm not at all surprised. Everyone wants to be at the top, and if they aren't well educated about the truth they will obviously think higher of themselves.

[Criptfeind]

Unlike yourself of course.

[Nadaka]

People are more religious now then they were twenty years ago. I think we are a looong time before religion runs it’s course, if it ever does.

On the other hand the future is unknowable, perhaps the internet and the increased connectivity of the world will supplant the major social needs that religion fulfils.

You can take that trend even farther back. In the 1920s, less than 1 in 4 people were members of any church. It was the red scare following WW2 that really brought religion back as a major  force in the US.

[CoughDrop]

Unlike yourself of course.

Why does everyone try and make ideas personal!?

Attack the idea, not the person.

If you reallly *do* want to make this personal, then I'll just defend myself and leave. -.-

[Willfor]

He's only applying the same standard to everyone in the thread dude. He's not trying to make it personal, he's just trying to make it fair.

[Criptfeind]

Unlike yourself of course.

Why does everyone try and make ideas personal!?

Attack the idea, not the person.

If you reallly *do* want to make this personal, then I'll just defend myself and leave. -.-

Okay. What are you trying to say then? We need more Dictators? Only let the smart people vote?

Your basic thoughts seem to be:

1: The majority is dumb and can not lead themselfs.

2: The majority can not be lead because people will only take power over them and be asshats.

I don't even know what I am aruguing here, I just know I don't agree with you.

Edit: No I can’t not straw man here. I can not find anything other then a straw man to fight.

[CoughDrop]

Okay. What are you trying to say then? We need more Dictators? Only let the smart people vote?

Your basic thoughts seem to be:

1: The majority is dumb and can not lead themselfs.

2: The majority can not be lead because people will only take power over them and be asshats.

I don't even know what I am aruguing here, I just know I don't agree with you.

What I'm saying is that we should somehow get the majority to think for themselves. I'm not trying to explain how it should be done, but why it should be done.

[Phmcw]

Unlike yourself of course.

Why does everyone try and make ideas personal!?

Attack the idea, not the person.

If you reallly *do* want to make this personal, then I'll just defend myself and leave. -.-

Okay. What are you trying to say then? We need more Dictators? Only let the smart people vote?

Your basic thoughts seem to be:

1: The majority is dumb and can not lead themselfs.

2: The majority can not be lead because people will only take power over them and be asshats.

I don't even know what I am aruguing here, I just know I don't agree with you.

Edit: No I can’t not straw man here. I can not find anything other then a straw man to fight.

Gni? I'm lost. Who argue what?
Are you disagreeing while holding the same position?

[Criptfeind]

I postulate that the majority does think for themselves, but, being the majority, their thoughts are similar.

[CoughDrop]

If people truly thought for themselves, I don't think culture would have as much influence.
Really, I have no idea if it truly is the majority of people, but it seems there is a very large amount of people that do. At least in the US.

I postulate that the majority does think for themselves, but, being the majority, their thoughts are similar.

I do find that a bit unlikely, though plausible.

[Pnx]

For those of you that aren't american/don't know about a american civil war/slavery thing:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Going way back to the mid 1800's the movement for slavery was kicking off, the northern states were against slavery, and were for it. The reason why it was divided that way is complicated, but mainly it's because the southern states were heavy on lucrative agriculture which made plantation owners very rich. There was a whole slew of things that went down before it actually came down to violence over the issue such as the underground railroad and the political fight to push for federal ruling on the matter, all of which makes for interesting reading... but I'm not going to go into too big of a lecture here.

Anyway, something interesting I found about the slavery issue, is that southern farmers would actually support slavery in the hopes that they would be able to own a slave someday themselves, despite the fact that realistically very few of them ever would, slavery was making them poorer, it drove the price of their produce down, and wealthy plantations would buy out large amounts of land, making it very hard for a farmer to expand his fields. All of which made it incredibly difficult for a farmer to work up the kind of cash needed to get a slave (the farmers dream being to no longer have to work for his livelihood).

The farmers were aware of this fact, but they still wanted the ability to own slaves...

It's interesting, I guess if people are presented with the chance to live a good life, and the slimmer chance to live a very good life, they'll take their chances with the slim chance option. I think in essence that's the capitalistic dream, the ability for a person to live better than others (obviously they MUST be more deserving of it if they have that lifestyle).
Of course, there's other things you can read out of that.

[Darvi]

I think they just wanted the prestige. Because people are like that .

[fqllve]

I postulate that the majority does think for themselves, but, being the majority, their thoughts are similar.

I do find that a bit unlikely, though plausible.

First, it's important to point out that just because somebody is in the majority in one thing they aren't necessarily in the majority for all things.

Second, for almost every decision I can remember I was convinced that I was thinking for myself. I'm willing to bet that everyone feels this way.

Third, just because someone is simply following the lead of the majority doesn't mean they aren't thinking for themselves. Perhaps they see the benefit in not standing out. Perhaps they want to provide a service or product (including artistic "products") for the majority.