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[Seanp888]

Ah Quick question how far will an enemy need to be to stop dwarfs from getting scared of them and fleeing , is a z-level considered a tile in this case? as in if unit is X tiles above enemy he won't scare or is it strictly x and y axis related to getting scared and fleeing?

[Girlinhat]

Dwarves flee when they "see" something, so their fleeing distance is their sight distance.  Thus, blind dwarves never flee, which is pretty awesome.  Either way, it appears that vision is based on a cube, ~7x7x7 if I remember right.  Our friend Urist DaVinci has a thread on sneaking and detection range, which I think applies here.

I general, it's 3 tiles from the dwarf's current position, where 1 Z level counts as 1 tile, and diagonals count as 1.

[Seanp888]

Ah yes thank you, I remember reading that thread on sneaking and detection range so i suppose its the same thing .... Soooo lets say i was building an arena pit with a dining area at the edge of the pit, would i need the pit do be 4 Z-levels down or only 3?

Kinda like this here
 F=floor
 P=pit
FFFF
FPPF
FFFF
How deep do i want the pit that i will put monsters in to be?

[Urist Da Vinci]

Dwarves flee when they "see" something, so their fleeing distance is their sight distance.  Thus, blind dwarves never flee, which is pretty awesome.  Either way, it appears that vision is based on a cube, ~7x7x7 if I remember right.  Our friend Urist DaVinci has a thread on sneaking and detection range, which I think applies here.

I general, it's 3 tiles from the dwarf's current position, where 1 Z level counts as 1 tile, and diagonals count as 1.

That only applies to the stealth detection range.

Dwarves see around 20 tiles away, since they can shoot crossbows that far, yet they will run into arrow range of goblin archers before fleeing. It appears that each z-level of height difference reduces the xy sight range by 1.

A 20 tile deep pit would work, but that is a sparta pit, not an arena. If you make an arena viewable from your dining hall, you will get scared dwarves. They just don't appreciate quality entertainment.

[Girlinhat]

You can make hatch covers from glass, right?  Not as amazing, but...

[Seanp888]

Ah thank you Urist Da Vinci just the person we needed !

Ah ha i found somthing regarding sight !

Siege operators are "civilians", and as such they will run in fear if enemy units come too close to them. "Too close" varies somewhat, but may be as far as 10 tiles

So would i be able to use only roughly ten- or maybe nine tiles if i do something like this
the restricted area being for first of all stopping them from some how using magic attacking my dwarfs ? or having my dwarfs fall in
P=Pit
F=Floor
B=Restricted area

FFFFFFF
FBBBBBF
FBPPPBF
FBPPPBF
FBBBBBF
FFFFFFF

EDIT:
Daaarrnn it contradicted it's self to obey you later in the page, Da Vinci you win this time

Siege operators are civilians! They will drop their work and run if the enemy comes too close, which is around 20 tiles. You should therefore place the engines behind a moat or a wall of fortifications that will keep the enemy at a safe distance, or shield access to their location in some other fashion.

 and

You can make hatch covers from glass, right?  Not as amazing, but...

Erm am i able to just floor something with them?
I might aswell use glass floors

[Girlinhat]

Coincidentally, I've never had a dwarf see anything if there was floor in front of him.  So...

Code: [Select]

Side view:
D_
WWgggggand he wouldn't know the goblins are there.  But,

Code: [Select]

_D
WWgggggand he sees everything and runs away.  Line-of-sight is definitely affected by obstacles - just jump in adventure mode to see that for yourself.  Floor appears to more or less totally obscure the level above or below.  So, your dwarves wouldn't actually "see" the arena, but it'd look like they did.

[imperium3]

Dwarves flee when they "see" something, so their fleeing distance is their sight distance.  Thus, blind dwarves never flee, which is pretty awesome.

What other limitations are there to being blind in DF? I want a squad of blind siege operators....

[Seanp888]

Coincidentally, I've never had a dwarf see anything if there was floor in front of him.  So...

Code: [Select]

Side view:
D_
WWgggggand he wouldn't know the goblins are there.  But,

Code: [Select]

_D
WWgggggand he sees everything and runs away.  Line-of-sight is definitely affected by obstacles - just jump in adventure mode to see that for yourself.  Floor appears to more or less totally obscure the level above or below.  So, your dwarves wouldn't actually "see" the arena, but it'd look like they did.

Oh shoot your right so my plan with the banned tiles might work !
so probably the before mentioned 4 deep pit
(Mid typing thought )
Oh snap using this logic i should use fortifications as the windows !
that way it takes up a space inbetween them and the pit , they can't fall but they can still 'see' into the pit
Sweeeet ! !

[Girlinhat]

Actually, come to think of that, it may be 2 spaces.  I always have my marksdwarves behind fortifications, so...

Code: [Select]

_DF
WWWgggggand gobbo gets shot.

Code: [Select]

D_F
WWWgggggand nothing happens.

Either way, I'd strongly suggest you get your hands on some sand and lumber, and put out some clear glass windows and clear glass blocks.  Blocks to make the corners, because in Stonesense a square of windows looks odd, but if you put walls for corners it tends to straighten out.  Not sure if you're a fan of visualizers, but it's always fun

[Seanp888]

Ohhh your very right , so i suppose i should make glass windows (with rock corners like you said ) but i should still restrict an additional ring around the pit's glass windows like you said
 

so maaaaybe this will work now !

Any in thing about this you can think of wrong Urist Da Vinci?

What other limitations are there to being blind in DF? I want a squad of blind siege operators....

Uh the whole not being able to see things and thus.... not being able to aim at things to shoot

[Girlinhat]

Actually, blind siege operators are preferred.  They fire just as well, for whatever insane reason, but won't flee when the enemy gets too close.  It probably uses the same skillset as the bookkeeper.  As someone else has stated, the bookkeeper doesn't actually go around counting, so instead he must simply sit on his chair and psychically "feel" how much junk there is.  Similarly, blind siege operators "feel" where their target it.  Alternatively, their beard is able to see it, and shouts to them (possibly telepathically) where to aim.

[Seanp888]

Actually, blind siege operators are preferred.  They fire just as well, for whatever insane reason, but won't flee when the enemy gets too close.  It probably uses the same skillset as the bookkeeper.  As someone else has stated, the bookkeeper doesn't actually go around counting, so instead he must simply sit on his chair and psychically "feel" how much junk there is.  Similarly, blind siege operators "feel" where their target it.  Alternatively, their beard is able to see it, and shouts to them (possibly telepathically) where to aim.

Whoa... Thats some crazy stuff right there ....

Any way i'm off to make my arena and pit thingy !

[Flying Dice]

Actually, blind siege operators are preferred.  They fire just as well, for whatever insane reason, but won't flee when the enemy gets too close.  It probably uses the same skillset as the bookkeeper.  As someone else has stated, the bookkeeper doesn't actually go around counting, so instead he must simply sit on his chair and psychically "feel" how much junk there is.  Similarly, blind siege operators "feel" where their target it.  Alternatively, their beard is able to see it, and shouts to them (possibly telepathically) where to aim.

Urist McSiegeOperator, why have you turned off your targetting computer?

[Mister Always]

Going a bit off-topic here. I always thought dwarves had some kind of rudimentary echo-location related to their beards. Like, they breach into a cave, the echos bounce off faraway walls and come back, and are picked up  by their sensitive beards.