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[arkhometha]

It would be much quicker to actually trade wooden crafts to buy steel, that to actually mine out that tetra.  It would be quicker to sell seeds to buy steel, for that matter.  Hell, it would be quicker to wait for the off-chance that a trader should happen to die of old age have an unfortunate accident involving magma while at your fort, and drop some steel bars at the depot, rather than mine out that tetra.

Fixed and point taken. You are right, of course. But this doesn't exclude the possibility of someone useless wasting their time doing things the dwarf way.
Of course trade is dwarfy but isn't as fun as digging EVERYTHING.

[Girlinhat]

I'm an end-result type of girl though.  If you say that trading is too un-dwarfy and that it's only proper to live on resource-void maps and die under the first goblin thief who has a copper dagger... well, you enjoy your death.  I'm gonna enjoy my metal walls and purchased armor.

[Khym Chanur]

Strangely enough, my civ has access to a lot of metals, they have pig iron and steel, but don't have iron.

I believe there's a bug that lets a civ generate the results of allowed reactions even if it doesn't have the proper inputs, so civs can generate bronze without having access to copper and steel without having access to iron.

[arkhometha]

I'm an end-result type of girl though.  If you say that trading is too un-dwarfy and that it's only proper to live on resource-void maps and die under the first goblin thief who has a copper dagger... well, you enjoy your death.  I'm gonna enjoy my metal walls and purchased armor.

Geez, another downer. 
Still, there is fun in metal scarcity, not so much as 864 tetra, though.

@Khym Chanur?
I heard of the bug, but was unsure if it really a bug. Thanks!

[beorn080]

I'm an end-result type of girl though.  If you say that trading is too un-dwarfy and that it's only proper to live on resource-void maps and die under the first goblin thief who has a copper dagger... well, you enjoy your death.  I'm gonna enjoy my metal walls and purchased armor.

Geez, another downer. 
Still, there is fun in metal scarcity, not so much as 864 tetra, though.

@Khym Chanur?
I heard of the bug, but was unsure if it really a bug. Thanks!

If the tetra was in one or two magnetite style clusters, that wouldn't be too bad, but hunting down the veins of it would be a pain.

[Girlinhat]

It's not so much a "bug" as a "quirk".  You can see the obvious value in it, goblins who should be able to use bronze, will automatically have it, and humans who use steel will have their steel.  It helps to ensure that everyone has their allocated metal types, but was never an issue until scarcity was invoked.  Now, the auto-give is resulting in odd quirks like having bronze but not copper.  It was a stop-gap measure that fixed a problem, but has now been exposed to create its own problems, albeit not very big problems.  It was probably a very good idea back when it was put in, can't fault Toady on that, but that happens with updates, yeah?

And I'm not being a downer, I'm just saying that all these people like to throw around "dwarfy" to show that something else is "cheating".  Like "It's un-dwarfy to use cage traps" pretty much states that using cages should be considered lame and you're not playing the game right.  That's fine, but when people say "It's dwarfy to embark with no metal on the site and no metal brought with me.  Damn I hate when a single ambush wipes out my base!" then... y'know, may wanna reconsider your values.  Pride is fine, but pride doesn't protect you from a swinging -Copper Flail-

[beorn080]

Its still a good stop gap measure since it lets you start with at least a steel anvil. You might have an incredibly rich site, but without an anvil, you can't do anything.

[Girlinhat]

Precisely.  It's still working pretty well, just in a different way.  As such, it'll probably be one of those things put on the back-burner of bugfixes while looming issues are still present.

[arkhometha]

.

[Girlinhat]

I dunno, tetra is only good for copper and a bit of silver.  A lot of tetra is still a lot of "not very valuable".

[agatharchides]

At least it has the material for a lot of bronze, which isn't so bad as all that.

[arkhometha]

I dunno, tetra is only good for copper and a bit of silver.  A lot of tetra is still a lot of "not very valuable".

Yep, but this turns things interesting.
I was playing with a map with 3k gold only, the only metal, and was going to trade every bit for steel when .21 came out. So, I started again. But almost 15k of tetra is way too much, I should stick with the 2500 that gives some 3k more or less of metal and the two biome settings and see if I can get some variety.

Too much bronze, agatharchides. I will continue some tests and see if I can find a suitable combination.

Test number 2: Same specifications as above, with the change as the embarking having no flux stone and the metal scarcity number changed to 2400


uses world ptr
Maximal regionoffset seen: 0.
VIOLET SPESSARTINE : 112
CARNELIAN : 203
RED GROSSULAR : 243
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 304
YELLOW ZIRCON : 321
RED PYROPE : 359
ALEXANDRITE : 499
GOLD OPAL : 507
TSAVORITE : 686
RUBICELLE : 719
PIPE OPAL : 909
ONYX OPAL : 1113
NATIVE_PLATINUM : 1229
SMOKY QUARTZ : 1359
ORTHOCLASE : 1531
CLEAR TOURMALINE : 1905
SPHALERITE : 5479
TETRAHEDRITE : 6179
BAUXITE : 16468
HEMATITE : 16545
TALC : 24286
SLADE : 26953
MICROCLINE : 29046


A ton of hematite and bauxite, 6k, an reasonable tetra value, I think. Platinum got an awesome number, as is a rare metal and I think 1k reflect this. Less adamantine than before and a LOT of variety of metals. Maybe it's because I didn't get a site with flux? In .19,.10 and .21 I never saw hematite and all my embarks was with flux. Even with chalk layers there are no iron ores. Maybe Toady did this more geologically realistic? Dunno, still didn't get this class in University.

With some curiosities notes, my civ don't have access to iron, but has to copper, and they don't have a single plump helmet. Strange.

Also, the site is on a mountain, few trees and a lot of rock everywhere.

[arkhometha]

Test 3:
Same setting as last test, the changes are that metal scarcity is 3000 and the site has flux stones, besides the standard shallow metal and deep metal.


uses world ptr
Maximal regionoffset seen: 0.
PRASE : 66
CAT'S EYE : 98
HELIODOR : 172
PYRITE : 391
BISMUTHINITE : 476
YELLOW SPESSARTINE : 480
SPINEL_RED : 501
BONE OPAL : 610
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 856
RUTILE : 917
AQUAMARINE : 1232
HORNBLENDE : 1252
RHODOLITE : 1341
OPAL_WHITE : 1864
OPAL_CLARO : 2000
COBALTITE : 3012
SLADE : 18398
NATIVE_GOLD : 21184
MICA : 33184

Shitload of gold and that's all. 3k of cobaltite, two biomes. My civ doesn't even have access even to copper, they don't have a metal at all. Wasn't for the pre-scripted steel pick and anvil, I would embark without a pick.
I begin to wonder if the metal scarcity work's as intended to, or maybe the metal is distributed in such a way you must be lucky to find iron or large clusters of other things.

[Girlinhat]

Try doing this using the same seed?

[arkhometha]

Try doing this using the same seed?

Great idea! I Shoulda thought of that sooner. Thanks!

Test 4:
Metal scarcity 3500, no flux.

GREEN ZIRCON : 298
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 1017
HONEY YELLOW BERYL : 1512
OPAL_HARLEQUIN : 2178
NATIVE_COPPER : 13269
SLADE : 76549

Strange. I didn't get two biomes, maybe this is the source of the missing variety. Civ has everything, has a lot of sites,too. Saw an aquifer in a hot desert. strange.

Will gen a new world and start using the same seed.