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[Gunner-Chan]

You're deliberately missing the point Max White. The point fqllve is making is that for instance. The two newest Call of Duty games spend a LOT of time telling the mostly passable storylines in a dull and drawn out way. Which makes them appear to be filler. In black ops especially the scene where you meet with Kennedy does nothing to advance or add to the plot other than use some of the models they made for the map "Five".

[fqllve]

You're deliberately missing the point Max White. The point fqllve is making is that for instance. The two newest Call of Duty games spend a LOT of time telling the mostly passable storylines in a dull and drawn out way. Which makes them appear to be filler. In black ops especially the scene where you meet with Kennedy does nothing to advance or add to the plot other than use some of the models they made for the map "Five".

Yes, this is exactly the point I was trying to make.

'Story heavy' is what all games should be, but that doesn't have to involve a direct plot.

I'm more inclined to agree with this with your definition of story than mine (which was essentially story = narrative), but I still don't feel that every game needs to be story heavy. Games are defined by gameplay not story, after all. In most cases, yeah, you're gonna need some characterization, scene setting, plot, etc to keep the player interested, but the more fun your gameplay is the less important these things are.

Of course, combine great gameplay and an excellent story and well...

[Vattic]

I won't comment on the industry as a whole but I do think Nintendo has gone downhill. I don't mean this across the board as, after a dodgy patch, Mario games are doing ok but the Zelda franchise is another story. Zelda games were my introduction to gaming so there is a certain amount of nostalgia involved but they have been getting much shorter and with the two DS games more mediocre. Prime example being Wind waker: brilliant design, very playable, felt like a return to LTTP (likely the music), but should have been longer as was planned.

Now that I've ranted a little I'm in the mood to comment on the industry as a whole. Not having a PC at the time I've had to go back and play a lot of old classics and I'm still surprised at how different they are from one another. The mainstream doesn't seem to offer this today and so I play more indie games than mainstream ones. I guess I'm mainly just bored with FPS mechanics and the strive for realistic graphics. I'd love to see some of the old ideas rehashed with the better technology of today.

[MrWiggles]

You're deliberately missing the point Max White. The point fqllve is making is that for instance. The two newest Call of Duty games spend a LOT of time telling the mostly passable storylines in a dull and drawn out way. Which makes them appear to be filler. In black ops especially the scene where you meet with Kennedy does nothing to advance or add to the plot other than use some of the models they made for the map "Five".

Yes, that scene does add to the story for Black Ops. The impact of the scence doesn't come later, until near the climax of the game, where the big bad retorts to the protagonist saying "I will never kill the president! you failed!" or, something along those lines, and the retort was something along of "Oh you haven't?"

As when you meet the president, you're feeling a bit tripping, and you have that scene where you pull a weapon on JFK. Then it turns out that was a hallucination. 

[Leafsnail]

You're deliberately missing the point Max White. The point fqllve is making is that for instance. The two newest Call of Duty games spend a LOT of time telling the mostly passable storylines in a dull and drawn out way. Which makes them appear to be filler. In black ops especially the scene where you meet with Kennedy does nothing to advance or add to the plot other than use some of the models they made for the map "Five".

That scene is actually vital to the most ridiculous bit of the storyline (I admit that I laughed as the game ended.  So.  Goddamn.  Silly).  I mean, it lets them work out what they brainwashed you to do much earlier.

And I think his response was actually just "No, we didn't fail...".

[optimumtact]

The story shouldn't have to make the game, think back to your life of gaming. Weren't some of the best moments just you using the gameplay mechanics in a new/ exciting way. While there definitely should be a strong narrative to each and every game, there also needs to be a lot of game. Story just for stories sake is not fun. Part of what gaming is is being able to use the game and it's narrative to build your own unique story. I truly think this is what's missing from a lot of games

In summary
Games make the story.
Stories don't make the game.

[Realmfighter]

In summary
Games make the story.
Stories don't make the game.

I can honestly say that I activate cheat codes to get through the gameplay and back into the story.

Subjectivity is an amazing thing, is it not?

[Cthulhu]

In summary
Games make the story.
Stories don't make the game.

I can honestly say that I activate cheat codes to get through the gameplay and back into the story.

Subjectivity is an amazing thing, is it not?

There are these things called books, they're kind of like video games but focus on the story.  You should try them.

[fqllve]

I can honestly say that I activate cheat codes to get through the gameplay and back into the story.

Subjectivity is an amazing thing, is it not?

I've done the same thing. It depends on the game really. Obviously I'd never do it for Dr. Robotnik's Mean Puyo Puyo Machine, but man there was no way I was gonna finish Star Ocean 3 properly.

But any game where I feel like rushing through the gameplay to get to the next plot point gets listed under bad game. Games oughta be fun to play.

While there definitely should be a strong narrative to each and every game

It's not good to make pronouncements on what every game should have. If they add a strong narrative to Flightgear I will flip my shit, no joke.

[Realmfighter]

There are these things called books, they're kind of like video games but focus on the story.  You should try them.

Surprisingly, and I know that with books being the Niche market they are this may surprise you, but I already have.

Anyway, have you every heard of a book that let you Choose Your Own Adventure, and wasn't complete shit?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Dwarf Fortress.

[fqllve]

If you haven't you should try out some visual novels. They're basically games without the gameplay.

[Leafsnail]

Or if you're going down the cutscene route, there's computer generated movies.

I guess there could be a game where the storyline is the main focus but the gameplay contributes to it in a meaningful way.  Can't think of any, though...

[Blargityblarg]

Hey, I got a real kick out of whatever WW2 game it was where the WW2 campaign started you out with five rounds and no ammo.  That was great, and moments like that keep me playing.

Funnily enough, I'm fairly sure that was Call of Duty; i.e. the first one.

[Gatleos]

All art fields are dominated by profiteers. And just because those profiteers are on top doesn't mean that the medium is dying, dead, or garbage. After all, movies weren't ruined forever when Die Hard 4 came out and neither will games be ruined forever by Dead Island. Just ignore the trash if it doesn't appeal to you

This entire thread (and any thread like this that pops up on the forums) can be summed up with this paragraph. It should replace the bulletin at the top of the Other Games board, seriously.