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[Duuvian]

Let's play a neat forum game called tie the two stories together and talk about them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41876046

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41910575/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

Following spoiler now irrelevant.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, I had read a story earlier on Yahoo that apparently was yanked from the sight of adoring viewers on the intertubes that said Manning's boxer briefs were taken away. Why can't I find that story anymore?

I was going to post it, is why I mention it. If anyone can find it, that would be cool.

EDIT: Also, I should remind people to remain civil and remember how to argue correctly.

[Urist is dead tome]

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/03/04/wikileaks-suspect-forced-to-sleep-naked-in-brig/

Is this it?

Anyway, I personally feel that this guy is wrongfully seen as a martyr. I mean he was committing treason for no reason. Did this man not think about the possibility that what he was doing was grossly illegal?

[Duuvian]

Has it ever crossed your mind that laws that are a structure built to sustain personal success will always be questioned and opposed by those who don't benefit from them?

EDIT: Of course I don't mean all laws.

[Urist is dead tome]

Has it ever crossed your mind that laws that are a structure built to sustain personal success will always be questioned and opposed by those who don't benefit from them?

EDIT: Of course I don't mean all laws.

Obviously not.

[Duuvian]

From the article:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

NEW YORK — When Lockheed Martin wanted to sell C-130 military transport planes to the government of Chad in early 2007, the U.S. embassy in N'Djamena was ready to lend a hand.

Nevermind that, by the embassy's own reckoning, the Chadian government probably could not afford the planes, was dishonest about their purpose and planned to use the aircraft to crush a pro-democracy rebellion.

"Our conclusion is that, like it or not, our interests line up in favor of allowing the sale in some form to go forward," the then-ambassador wrote to the State Department.

In ensuing years, the Chadian government and people connected to Lockheed worked relentlessly to get the deal done. Chad's president Idriss Deby personally wrote to President George W. Bush asking that the sale be permitted.

I'd sure like to see what is in the spoiler investigated.

[lemon10]

Shouldn't this be in the forum games and roleplaying section?

[Cheeetar]

Shouldn't this be in the forum games and roleplaying section?

Despite the title, not really. Read the OP.

[lemon10]

Shouldn't this be in the forum games and roleplaying section?

Despite the title, not really. Read the OP.

Yeah, me tired, i read it and though it was a game with the goal of finding the link between the two stories, then the next person would do the same (obviously it isn't though). Stupid me...

[Duuvian]

Shouldn't this be in the forum games and roleplaying section?

Despite the title, not really. Read the OP.

Yeah, me tired, i read it and though it was a game with the goal of finding the link between the two stories, then the next person would do the same (obviously it isn't though). Stupid me...

I fixed the title. Now it should be obvious what the thread should be about.

Also, Toady gave me his permission to start another Manning thread, but in an attempt to have a better discussion I am to remind everyone to attempt to be cordial gentlemen/female equivalents.

[Tilla]

I would call these diplomats more guilty of treason than Manning ever was.

[Duuvian]

Yeah. I sure wish more people thought like that, because it's the right thing to do.

[A Dwarven Smokeologist]

Manning is guilty of releasing classified information, he knew the risk. It is entirely wrong and illegal in how he is being treated however. We have signed the Geneva Convention among other treaties that BAN this type of treatment. I do feel he should be tried and charged for his crimes though, that's the price you pay for breaking the law.

I also feel that the leaders / diplomats who have broken laws and skirted their responsibilities as detailed in some of the cables should be charged as well for their crimes. A lot of people seem to want to kill the messenger but ignore the message as if it some how doesn't matter because "he didn't follow the rules, blah blah rabble rabble!".

*edited the last line out

[Duuvian]

Manning is guilty of releasing classified information, he knew the risk. It is entirely wrong and illegal in how he is being treated however. We have signed the Geneva Convention among other treaties that BAN this type of treatment. I do feel his should be tried and charged for his crimes though, that's the price you pay for breaking the law.

I also feel that the leaders / diplomats who have broken laws and skirted their responsibilities as detailed in some of the cables should be charged as well for their crimes. A lot of people seem to want to kill the messenger but ignore the message as if it some how doesn't matter because "he didn't follow the rules, blah blah rabble rabble!".

If you hate Manning but don't hate the leaders who committed the crimes he wanted to expose then you're part of the problem.

I almost agree up to the hate part, now that I think about it.  I think instead of hate it should be 'question and don't be intimidated?' Would you agree?

As to the almost, I believe that the current process which he is going through has so far shown no sign of leniency or acceptance of the fact that what his actions accomplished was quite frankly important and quite possibly necessary. This is totally unacceptable from my point of view.

[A Dwarven Smokeologist]

Heh yeah "hate" is probably too strong of a word to use but it's the best way I can describe the people who seem to rally / rage against Manning and want his head on a plate.

[Leafsnail]

Well, it does make sense for them to hit Manning as hard as possible.  I guess people might forget the sheer level of information suppression that the army has been performing if they punish him enough...

Also, Toady gave me his permission to start another Manning thread, but in an attempt to have a better discussion I am to remind everyone to attempt to be cordial gentlemen/female equivalents.

Ladies.