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[Jim Groovester]

lordnincompoop's plan is good, so I'll follow along with it.

I also agree that Zrk2 is scummy and I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched.

Unvote Mr.Person, Zrk2.

[Jack A T]

Read some of Zrk's games.

Didn't see him get quite as angry as he was in the ALL CAPS POST, but I did find a point in BYOR 6.3 where he got rather annoyed at Org:

Or at least stop ending every post with 'herp derp.' It's fucking annoying. Why?

Meh.

Zrk2.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Boy, it sure is quick-wagon-and-switch in here...

[Mr.Person]

Boy, it sure is quick-wagon-and-switch in here...

So what are you gonna do about it?

[Mr.Person]

Because your current position of "do nothing" is a touch on the passive side.

[Jokerman-EXE]

What would you like me to do, Person? It seems to me that pretty much all I can do is point out that it's happening, which I would hope you're able to discern means I don't like it - and if you can't, then there you go - and see if that makes a difference.

You're just happy it's happening because people are finally stopping their attacks on you. It's funny; when there was pressure all over you from multiple people, you were pretty hard to get a hold of. And yet, as soon as the wagon starts on Zrk2, you're right there to...what, defend it? Just pointing that out, because I myself didn't really think you were that scummy. I think that this new twist puts you on my radar, but I'd rather see what everyone else thinks of your attendance.

[Mr.Person]

I think it puts you right in the middle of things because you're being very scummy right now. If you were a townie who saw that kind of wagon and thought it was a scumwagon, you're be questioning the people involved OR trying to get the people involved lynched. Instead you do nothing but point it out and try to defend doing nothing to convince others to stop the wagon. If you can't do anything to stop it, why don't you try being a townie first and use the tools the town has to stop the scum? Oh wait, you forgot about them because you're scum.

Then you deflect onto me... in the most passive way imaginable. Everybody else's opinions only matter to the scum. End of story. You seem to ONLY care about the opinions of others, which just makes you all the scummier.Unvote Jim, vote Jokerman.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Ha. You're so cute, the way you try and scramble for reasons.

First, I never said it was a "scumwagon," mostly because I don't think that the people of the wagon are all that scummy. Ottofar was near the top of my list, but his recent posts have allayed a lot of my suspicions, and Jim/Jack weren't all that high on my list to begin with. Jack has moved higher, but again, I don't think he's scum just yet.

And then you fly to defend yourself when I point out your absence. Two whole paragraphs, ending in a vote, just because I pointed out the fact that you were gone when people were attacking you, but not when they're looking at someone else? Really? I wasn't even attacking you, just pointing out an observation. That's pretty suspicious. In addition, you haven't even said a single word to me all game, and then somehow, despite the arguments you've already made and the suspicions you've already said you have, you think I'm scummy enough to vote, as soon as you realize that your vote on Jim was garbage that no one believed? I find that pretty interesting, given that you said yourself that a townie should "use the tools the town has to stop scum," which means that either your suspicions were garbage and you don't believe them to be true, or you're just attacking me in a terribly-thought-out OMGUS.

So what would you have done, Person? Given the same situation as me, would you have voted someone you didn't think was scummy, just because? Or would you join the wagon? Or what? I'm curious to know, because you seem to know exactly how a good Townie would act. And don't go screaming OMGUS, because at least I have reasons behind my vote.

[IronyOwl]

Jokerman.

but I'd rather see what everyone else thinks of your attendance.

Why is this even relevant? "Gee, you're kind of scummy now, but I'd like everyone else to comment before I swing one way or the other."

Plus your reaction to the wagon is extremely passive. You don't like it, but you're not willing to do anything about it but make a snarky comment? That's it? No asking people if this is really a good idea, no pointing out how scummy it is, nothing whatsoever but pointing out that it's happening? If it's not worth doing anything about, not even suggesting we not do it or pointing out that it's a bad idea, why mention it at all?

[Jokerman-EXE]

Read what I said above, if you didn't. And if you did, then don't ignore it.

In response to you, though: eh. I think I've said this enough now: I didn't think anyone in the wagon was particularly scummy, but I wanted to point it out so that no one thinks it's going unnoticed. Three votes isn't enough to worry me D1, but it is enough to draw my attention. That's why I pointed it out. And look, it worked: drew attention to what was happening and started a conversation about it. Maybe in the wrong direction, but I bet everyone sees it now.

Speaking of passivity, thanks for popping in long enough to literally what Mr.Person said. Y'know, despite the part where I showed exactly how I felt about the wagon. And where I answered his suspicions. In fact, for someone who is voting me for "not doing anything," you're doing a remarkable job of saying nothing new, copying a vote, and pretending to contribute.

Really, I hope someone else can see this. You're near the top of my list, IO, but I still think Mr.Person has some talking to do.

[IronyOwl]

I didn't ignore it; you still haven't explained why one quip was all you could bother with. Even if your goal was just to call attention to it, why not actually say something about it?

On that note, why were you calling attention to it? You say you don't really find anyone on it scummy, and you haven't bothered to explain why it's dangerous or otherwise a bad idea, so what is it? Just warning scum away from doing something obvious? What's the function here?


You've also failed to explain why what everyone else thinks of Person is necessary for you to have a non-OMGUS opinion on him.

[Jack A T]

Okay, time to examine this new development.

First, Jokerman.

That was a rather passive comment on the bandwagon, I must say.  Also, you seem too dependent on the opinions of others to actually vote, which no town should be.

The goal of the town, in voting, is to point out who they think is scummy and eventually get the scummiest person lynched.  The goal of the scum is to make sure that a mislynch occurs.  The former doesn't depend on the opinions of others as much as the latter.

And then you fly to defend yourself when I point out your absence. Two whole paragraphs, ending in a vote, just because I pointed out the fact that you were gone when people were attacking you, but not when they're looking at someone else? Really? I wasn't even attacking you, just pointing out an observation.

While you do make it clear that that was just pointing out an observation, it does feel rather like a slightly concealed attack:

You're just happy it's happening because people are finally stopping their attacks on you. It's funny; when there was pressure all over you from multiple people, you were pretty hard to get a hold of. And yet, as soon as the wagon starts on Zrk2, you're right there to...what, defend it? Just pointing that out, because I myself didn't really think you were that scummy.

"You were away for pretty much the entire time that a wagon was on you and now you're suddenly defending a wagon on Zrk2!  Not an attack, just pointing it out."

And now, Mr. Person.

I must wonder how pointing out how the town seems to be overly willing to make and change bandwagons isn't, in a way, discouraging them.

I must also wonder why, with stronger evidence against Jokerman than you had against SirBayer, your attack on Jokerman is so much lighter than your attack was on SirBayer.

NativeForeigner, Jokerman: Welcome back.  Mind sharing your opinions on the things you missed?

Mr. Person, I didn't like your D1 attacks on SirBayer and piggybacking off of Zrk2, I didn't like your dislike of attempting to figure out what the laws are and whether anything related to Org was true today when you were arguing against Jimbook Groovethras, but I'm not ready to vote in this conflict yet, seeing how Jokerman also feels scummy to me.  Need more information.

PPE: And another argument to look at.  Yay.

IronyOwl: Did you even read what Jokerman said after that?  The whole bit about his thoughts on the bandwagon, and how he thought it wasn't that scummy?

PPE The Second: ...beat me to it.

Jokerman: ...so you pointed it out just to make sure that no one thinks it's going unnoticed?  Doesn't really sound good. "Hey, look at the bandwagoning!  Meh, don't think anyone's scummy.  Just pointing it out so no one thinks it's not noticed."  Why bother?

PPE AGAIN!: ...and there go those questions.  Bleh.  I should really stop pacing in the middle of my responses.

[Jim Groovester]

It's like a catfight just erupted in here.

Mr.Person, what's your opinion of Zrk2?

[Leafsnail]

I still think Ottofar's scum, but I guess we'd have proof of that if he fails to wind back the clock tomorrow.  Unvote.

Eh, I guess there's nothing to lose, unless he has some crazy ability involving unvoting.

Unvote.

Well, Ottofar, nothing seems to be happening.

Yeah.  You tell Ottofar he shouldn't expect anyone to unvote.  You then unvote after Jim tells you to.  You then... revote for reasons known only to yourself.  I also can't find any votes of yours where you're actually trying to find scum, Zrk2.

[Zrk2]

Unvote, vote Mr. Person. I explained about his tunneling on Jim in a previous post and his recent throwing out accusations without arguments is horrible. Examples in the morning.

Since it seems to have come up, how about you guys tell me what my meta is, I'd like to know as I'm not self-aware enough to pick it up myself.