@lordnincompoop and Jim Groovester: My reasoning for voting Book was that he scumhunted a confirmed jester. Now, even he admitted that Org was a jester at the time. He also said he'd be happy to lynch the jester. All of this just screams that he doesn't want to scumhunt. That's a major scumtell right there.
Furthermore, Book did no actual scumhunting beyond talking with Org. That further implies he doesn't want to scumhunt. He only attacked me after I attacked him. I won't say OMGUS, but it was very reactive and passive. We all know passiveness is the way of the scum.
If you still think my argument is crap, I'd at least appreciate it if you said WHY you think it's crap instead of just going "oh, he's scum because his argument is bad" and walking off. Thank you.
Well see, you're wasting your time by scumhunting a player whose alignment is already publicly known. You're also trying to scumhunt one of the hardest-to-read players we have when he's NOT a jester trying to obfuscate, much less when he actually is. And even if he isn't, he's obviously going to try to act like one, so you're left with an absurdly difficult scumhunt that hinges on an impossible situation happening.
Are you saying we should ignore him from this point on?
That is a potentially very dangerous decision. This is an unpredictable game, and Org may be aligned one way or another that we don't know about. All we know is Bayer defended Org, who flipped town, and that Org's power is to reveal his alignment. We can draw that conclusion, but I'm certainly not going to sit and ignore him for the rest of the game. This can be a cover (a risky one), and one of the factions may even have recruitment powers, which would make Org a perfect target for that.
Pand may make "lies" of omission, if I'm getting this right. He hasn't stated anything regarding the role besides the fact that he won't tell outright lies, which is quite ambiguous to me.
Yes, we really are best off ignoring him. Everything he says is WIFOM. Yes, his role might change, but it probably won't. And besides, Org is probably the worst player imaginable to turn into scum. Everybody already wants him dead, it doesn't give the scum a net advantage in votes, and doesn't gain the scum a useful night power. Wowies. If the scum did have a conversion, the best play would be to use it on night of mylo or lylo on a non-Org player to gain vote dominance. That's either tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, depending on how many scum we have. Basically what I'm saying is that conversions are a much bigger problem than just "Org might of been converted!". Unless it's a sacrifice-to-convert kind of role, but then we're given a good warning in advance. And if that happens, then yes, feel free to ask Org all the questions you want. Until then, don't spread WIFOM, please.
What we know is that Bayer received an alignment PM from Org that said Org was a jester. We also know Org has an ability to reveal his alignment to another player. We also know Org hasn't fought to defend himself at all. If you put all this together, Org's a confirmed jester. I can't even believe I had to explain this to you. But feel free to explain how Org is not a jester. He's bargaining to get himself lynched for fuck's sake, what more evidence do you want?
Again, not a fact. Just another conclusion. You're stifling attempts at discussion, it seems. As I said, the setting may change and I think talk like this (coupled with plenty of hunting) will prevent us getting crippled by twists later on.
Again, if you have reason to suspect Org is converted, bring it forth. Like if a scum who sacs to convert dies or we kill a cult member or something like that, then yes, Org will be suspect #1. But until then, stick with the evidence we have in front of us that says Org is a jester, 100%.
Well of course if my assumptions are wrong the conclusions I've drawn from them are also going to be wrong. Of course, the only part of it that's a presumption is about Leafsnail, and I'm obviously not going to claim another players i confirmed if Leafsnail had to also be confirmed since Leafsnail isn't. The only reason that I even bring Leafsnail into the equation is that it drives another nail into the coffin of the "Pand's lying!" idea.
This doesn't even make sense to me. What are you saying?
I'm saying that Leafsnail's claim and suggestion of what the law means makes me suspect that said law pertains to lynching and will have no impact on any revealations related to Org. But what I'm also saying is that even if Leafsnail is lying and the law did pertain to Org, I'd still say Org is 100% confirmed Jester by any stretch of the imagination.
Neither are infallible. Pand may be, to an extent, but Bayer isn't. You're being deliberately naive here.
In what way is Bayer fallible? Lying? He's a townie, why would he lie? Being mistaken? What's there to be mistaken about a PM that says "Org is a jester". There may have been a ton of words, but the keywords are "Org" and "jester", no matter how it was worded. And in any case, if Bayer was confused, he would of asked questions until he wasn't.
In fact, I'm actually curious now. How could the PM Pand sent Org possibly be so misleading as to cause SirBayer to confuse Org's alignment for jester? Jester isn't the kind of thing you accidentally put into a paragraph without meaning to. Town or survivor, maybe I could see it as a stretch, but jester? No way. Why would Pand include "jester" in an alignment-stating PM without that person's alignment being jester?
Who says we have a killer? Why are you assuming there is one? Where are you getting this info?
MC?
Eh, I'm kind of assuming that in a large role-heavy game like this that we have all or nearly all the kinds of roles there are. But yes, we may very well not have a killer. Note how I said killer, by the way, since an sk wants Org dead just as much as the townies do at a certain point. But whatever, it's not a big deal. I just don't want to give Org the satisfaction of winning with a lynch, really. But if we have to, we have to.
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Topic: Why Would You Do That?: A Mafia Misadventure: Game Over, nobody wins >:I (Read 189499 times)