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[Argembarger]

Sorry, I've been going through a somewhat minor school-related crisis. Posting this is actually some pretty major procrastination from said crisis on my part, but screw it I need a break.
Unvote Org, because

I am not a jester. I think Bayer is buddying, possibly for when he flips scum.

and

Im calling shenanigans. My power is a night action.

This is a refreshing change. I approve. Or, at least, it's less horrifically useless than "herpaderp derp derp herp derp".
SirBayer, did you ask Pandar yourself or did his PM come unbidden? Any flavor for this "effect" Org had on you that you'd like to share? All in all, your claim and your game thus far seems fulla holes.
Darvi, so far, the majority of what you've talked about is Ottofar's voting shenanigans in the beginning of the game, and Org related things. You aren't questioning much. Confident in your suspicions then?
Leafsnail, teensy bit lurkish

Bayer, I think you got something backwards there. We ( or at least I) didn't vote for herping derping. We voted him because he kept doing nothing else. It's active lurking at its finest. And you defending him makes you scummy too. Period.

As far as I can tell, you're saying you voted Org for being scummy, and SirBayer for defending scum.  Doesn't this mean that Bayer's scumminess is contingent on Org's scumminess, and that you should continue to vote Org?

Is this your own opinion? </confused>

In addition, I can't read that intention into your post that votes Org:

Org: Derp. Derpaderpaherp. Stop it.

Would you mind explaining?

Re: Post Above

I played once with Org before, he was annoying, but never this bad. Also, your need to defend Orgs indefensible position screams buddying.

So... is he scum or isn't he?  Scum doesn't buddy other scum unless you're claiming some kind of strange WIFOM.

In your opinion, is there a line between trying to prevent an Org-lynch and buddying Org? If so, where is it and when was it crossed?
Ottofar, where are you? Org has literally contributed more than you have now. How do you feel about that, and what are your current suspicions?
Zrk2, are you aware that there are players other than Org and SirBayer in this game?
lordnincompoop, you show up, make a single post with a huge batch of questions for everyone, follow up on zero of them and disappear? Are you hoping that the huge post you started out with will give you ample time to lurk?
Book, your case on SirBayer seems a tad lazy, especially since there are far lurkier players than he. Could you rehash your case on him and possibly others, please?
Jack A T, you're not currently voting anyone. How come? Also, do you think it is effective to counter an argument rooted in meta by using more meta?
Org, any plans to follow through with your suspicions, perhaps with some active scumhunting?
Jokerman-EXE, nothing jumps out from your posts so far in my opinion. Token question time: what do you think of SirBayer's claim?
Toaster, to answer your question: I think the way Org was acting was by and large just a scumhunting distraction. It gives scum an easy target, and it gives town a lazy target. This is bad, and I was also guilty of some laziness there. Any discussion Org creates indirectly (and he has indeed created some) should not be taken to his credit. It's a positive outcome, but nobody should claim that was his intention all along.

It's an interesting question though. What is your opinion?
IronyOwl, if Org did not have a track record for Orglike behavior, how would your thoughts on this game be altered?
NativeForeigner, do you have next to nothing on Darvi because there is nothing to be gotten, or because you aren't paying attention to him? Does the possibility of Jester Org deter you from from wanting to lynch him?
Mr. Person, what are your reads on the other players in this game that you've yet to mention?

aaand now it's bedtime for me.

[Jack A T]

Jack A T, you're not currently voting anyone. How come? Also, do you think it is effective to counter an argument rooted in meta by using more meta?

You're the second person so far to miss my Org vote.  Admittedly, it's an old vote and I've only really kept it on him to pressure him into actually doing something.  He's doing something, and other people are acting scummy, so Unvote.

Meta: I feel that meta is the most effective counter to meta.  As a meta argument is usually based around consistent previous behaviour, finding something that will show inconsistency is the most effective counter.  Also, I feel that newer meta trumps older meta.

[Jack A T]

Oh, right, and Mr. Person, I believe I made my opinion of most of your arguments clear enough in a couple of my recent posts.

[Pandarsenic]

Votes:
SirBayer - 6 - Book Zrk2 Darvi Mr.Person IronyOwl Org
Darvi - 0
Leafsnail - 0
Ottofar - 1 - Argembarger
Argembarger - 1 - lordnincompoop
Zrk2 - 2 - Leafsnail Ottofar
lordnincompoop - 0
Book - 0
Jack A T - 0
Org - 1 - NativeForeigner
Jokerman-EXE - 0
Toaster - 0
IronyOwl - 1 - Toaster
NativeForeigner - 0
Mr.Person - 3 - SirBayer JokermanEXE Jack_A_T

A reminder, the deadline approaches soon.

Book, LurkerTracker post at your convenience, please.

Edit: On account of 3 people having been listed as voting multiple times, I'm no longer going to attempt to be generous about people forgetting to unvote. Yes, you now have to even say "Unvote nobody, vote X" from now on.

[Argembarger]

Also, I feel that newer meta trumps older meta.

Why?

Also, somehow I managed not only to miss your Org vote, but also miss someone else reposting your Org vote for convenience. Bluh bluh one o'clock after midnight.

[Toaster]

Pandar:  Book, Zrk2, and Darvi are all voting twice.  Zrk2 is listed as having 3 votes despite having only two names beside him.  Are these all correct?

Also, is that Wednesday 3:00 PST AM or PM?


Actual content in a bit.

[Ottofar]

Argem.

I think I'm believing both Org and Bayer.
I think Zrk might be scum for Bandwagoning and Tunneling.
Also Jack A T.

[Book]

Unvote. Fresh perspectives and LurkerTracker later today.

[Darvi]

While I'm not averse to believing that Org is a jester, I still don't believe Bayer to be entirely innocent either. For all we know the PM never happened and he's making it all up to cover for his buddying.

@leafsnail: does the wine taste good? I voted org because he wasn't contributing (which is a scumtell, no matter how you put it) and to make him actually do something.
You have no basis for claiming that it was a policy vote.

@argembarger: I can barely manage to read on this flipping machine. I'll have to wait until my computer takes less than half an hour to load a goddamn webpage to read the entire thread and make any questions on that.

[NativeForeigner]

That was a quote from the PM, which was from Pandar, who is the mod. Org is a jester. THis is what it said. That's all. Can't get any simpler.

If you got such a PM, why do you think YOU were the one to receive it?

NativeForeigner, do you have next to nothing on Darvi because there is nothing to be gotten, or because you aren't paying attention to him? Does the possibility of Jester Org deter you from from wanting to lynch him?

I have next to nothing on Darvi because I haven't been paying him much attention. I'll amend this at one point, but I didn't have the time to at the time of my posting. The possibility of Jester Org wouldn't really make me not want to lynch him if I thought he was scummy.

[Toaster]

Ottofar:  On all of those points, why?


Argem:  Org is always a pain to read.  As far as judging Org entirely of the content of his posts, he's so far said that:

1.  He thinks Zrk2 isn't scum
2.  He has a night action
3.  A million flavors of herp derp

This is not contribution.  I have questions outstanding to him, but he definitely useless so far.  My gut's telling me third party when reading him alone.

When you factor in Bayer, it gets much more interesting.  I need to clarify, but Bayer is indicating that- unprompted- he got a message telling him that Org is a jester.  Both Bayer and Org deny their role is responsible for this. 

What baffles me is why any jester would want anyone to know they're a jester.  A friendly neighbor message claiming you're a jester seems to be great cover for scum, so it makes me pretty suspicious of Org.

I have questions out to Org on this, so let me point some at Bayer.  I am correct at interpreting that your role had nothing to do with this message, correct?    Do you trust the message?  What do you think the source was?


Native:  Do you think Bayer and Jokerman are scummy for their "utter bullshit" arguments against the Org lynch?

[lordnincompoop]

lordnincompoop, you show up, make a single post with a huge batch of questions for everyone, follow up on zero of them and disappear? Are you hoping that the huge post you started out with will give you ample time to lurk?

To be honest, a large part of it was due to the fact that I forgot I was in this.

I'm also quite busy with my schoolwork, and after that I spend some more hours helping out in a public event, meaning I'm rather too busy to contribute properly. Sorry.

I'm sleeping early today though, because this'll be the best sleep I'll have in a very long time so I'd better take it.

If you want to replace me, go right ahead.

[lordnincompoop]

As for Org, my gut reaction was to lynch him for uselessness. Now that I think about it, though, it has been said that it's Org's playstyle (which I will only believe after several games with him), and uselessness does not make scum; there are other, better ways to find that out.

Unfortunately, since he contributes very little that is useful and his reactions mostly consist of some variation of "derp", it makes him near-impossible to read as well as a bad player regardless of alignment.

SirBayer's fervent defense of Org is suspicious indeed, but right now, even after rereading the thread, I don't see very many scumtells. I'm going to withhold my vote until I see something I find definite. Unvote.

SirBayer, "Orgness" in my opinion isn't a sufficient defense for him. If a person makes a habit of playing badly in games, it does not give them a free pass to play badly elsewhere. He is playing badly, and bad play is inexcusable. Additionally, why where you so quick to try to deflect the attacks against him? The only motivations I can think of for doing so is to defend one's scumpartner.

[lordnincompoop]

Bluh forgot a bit

So then who's scummier? The guy who's spouting random nonsense or the guy who's buddying? And yet your vote is where it is - on Org. Haven't even FoS'd me. Just defended yourself.

Who's scummier? The defender of another or the defender of himself?

That is irrelevant. You appear scummy in your defense of him. IF you're trying to counter, think of something else.

[SirBayer]

SirBayer, did you ask Pandar yourself or did his PM come unbidden? Any flavor for this "effect" Org had on you that you'd like to share? All in all, your claim and your game thus far seems fulla holes.

I won't argue with you on the game. I'm not playing well this time, I shan't deny that.

The claim, however, is honest and true. This PM was received unbidden. The flavor implied that I managed to understand via all of Org's derping that he was saying he was a Jester, or in short that I translated the derping. That makes it unclear whether the role was Org's or mine, honestly.

While I'm not averse to believing that Org is a jester, I still don't believe Bayer to be entirely innocent either. For all we know the PM never happened and he's making it all up to cover for his buddying.

Well yes, perhaps the PM never happened.

But notice when Org started contributing - when he was no longer the focus of attention and of desired lynch.

Only then did he change his slant. So if you disbelieve me I'm fine with that, I just think it warrants more faith than you're giving it.

That was a quote from the PM, which was from Pandar, who is the mod. Org is a jester. THis is what it said. That's all. Can't get any simpler.

If you got such a PM, why do you think YOU were the one to receive it?

I'm assuming random chance. I have abilities, but I don't actually know what any of them do. They're also all one-shots, so unless there's a hidden passive, if you will, I either used one against my will or it was someone else's role. If it was it was probably random chance.

When you factor in Bayer, it gets much more interesting.  I need to clarify, but Bayer is indicating that- unprompted- he got a message telling him that Org is a jester.  Both Bayer and Org deny their role is responsible for this. 

What baffles me is why any jester would want anyone to know they're a jester.  A friendly neighbor message claiming you're a jester seems to be great cover for scum, so it makes me pretty suspicious of Org.

I have questions out to Org on this, so let me point some at Bayer.  I am correct at interpreting that your role had nothing to do with this message, correct?    Do you trust the message?  What do you think the source was?

Correct. So far as I know, it was uninvolved. I do trust the message, mostly because of Org's sudden change in behavior. I suspect he was responsible for it, since no Law is in effect.

I may have misinterpreted the "Friendly Neighbor," type as anything that reveals a role - I don't think Org intentionally informed me of his role. No Jester would. I think it was unintentional.

Bayer:  What do you take of Org saying he didn't generate the message?  What do you think of the idea of scum having an ability to tell someone else that they are a jester?  Why would anyone want anyone else to know that?

I don't know what I'd think about that. It's entirely possible and the thought hadn't crossed my mind, but Org's behavior is more consistent with a Jester than with a Mafioso. Org saying he didn't generate the message means that either he was out of control, he's trying something crazy, or he's just trying to avoid consequences, or any combination of the last three.

Lordnincompoop: Review what happened in these last few pages. Especially observe Mr. Person, if you will. Do you have anything to say about Org's potential Jesterhood? Do you have anything to say about Mr. Person's hilari-jump? Do you have anybody else to look at?