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[Trippin]

can someone give me the info for the dwarf fortress irc?

sorry if this belongs elsewhere

[G-Flex]

It's on NewNet.

irc.newnet.net
#bay12games


For what it's worth, it's linked from the Bay 12 Games index page, being the official channel at all.

[Anticheese]

Or it was, until extremely recently. Toady, could we please get a word as to why the link has been removed, especially after we fought so hard to maintain it following an incident last year?

[G-Flex]

Huh, that is weird.

I definitely do remember it being there, even on the new layout, but it's hard to check how long ago it was removed, because bay12games.com blocks the Internet Archive crawler. Google's cached version is from Feb. 26 and didn't have the link, for what it's worth, and some other internet caching service states the server reports a last-edited date of Feb. 13 of this year.

[Capntastic]

Or it was, until extremely recently. Toady, could we please get a word as to why the link has been removed, especially after we fought so hard to maintain it following an incident last year?

Because the IRC became a pool of drama and nonsense that Toady didn't want to associate with in anything resembling official terms. 

I personally stopped caring about the IRC entirely when the person who graciously set up the new room decided to not let the Toady-appointed mod team (me included) be moderators anymore and apparently spent a good deal of time trash talking me.

[G-Flex]

Because the IRC became a pool of drama and nonsense that Toady didn't want to associate with in anything resembling official terms.

Huh? You don't even go there. It's also not a "pool of drama"; #bay12games tends to be fairly civil, and I would go as far as to say there's less "drama" there then on the forums, as anybody causing problems tends to be rooted out relatively quickly; it's hard for that not to be the case on an IRC channel unless the moderation is a bunch of jerks, because everything is plainly visible to everyone and it's harder to get away with things. I can't think of a single person there who caused consistent problems and didn't end up banned. I honestly don't know what you mean by "pool of drama and nonsense", and if you're going to criticize people like that, you really ought to do so in a more constructive manner and

I personally stopped caring about the IRC entirely when the person who graciously set up the new room decided to not let the Toady-appointed mod team (me included) be moderators anymore and apparently spent a good deal of time trash talking me.

You came to a channel you weren't a regular of, asked out of the blue to be made a channel operator, and got upset when they didn't oblige, and apparently are still upset.

You might have been an operator on WorldIRC back in the day, but you disappeared for months after we switched networks, then showed up out of nowhere and demanded operator status back even though you weren't even a channel regular anymore; what did you expect? The reasonable thing to do would be to at least stick around for a while before asking. Whether Toady made you an op ages ago or not, you don't just show up somewhere completely out of the blue after ignoring it for months and then demand moderator status as if it's taken for granted that you would get it, which is pretty much what you did.

[LordNagash]

Or it was, until extremely recently. Toady, could we please get a word as to why the link has been removed, especially after we fought so hard to maintain it following an incident last year?

Because the IRC became a pool of drama and nonsense that Toady didn't want to associate with in anything resembling official terms. 

I personally stopped caring about the IRC entirely when the person who graciously set up the new room decided to not let the Toady-appointed mod team (me included) be moderators anymore and apparently spent a good deal of time trash talking me.

You turned up months after we changed networks and demanded to be a moderator, then when it was pointed out you were never actually in the channel you just left.

[Capntastic]

You're correct that I haven't gone there in a very long time, but I was a constant regular there a few years ago and when Toady assigned moderator positions I was first up.

There's really no need to be so snide with your 'translations' and stuff.

Edit:  To clarify the point, when the IRC channel was actually Toady's, I was a moderator, and then when the server was switched, whoever was the new admin decided to ignore Toady's previous wishes.  I feel that this in of itself is a good reason to cut ties.

[Captain Mayday]

The new admin would be me.
And the reason you weren't given ops were made explicitly clear at the time.

Edit: More to the point, every other op got ops there, except for you.

[Capntastic]

It's not important, but I just recall being given moderator status, hanging around that night, and then the next day being told it was revoked because you changed your mind.   That's pretty annoying, to say the least.

[Anticheese]

I was there at the start when Toady first assigned operator positions, and I can safely say that you've done absolutely nothing in the channel. Actually, the reason why we moved from the bot to a proper +o system is BECAUSE you and the first group never did anything. However, when we made the move, we gave operator positions back to those that made the move with us.

Except you took about three or four months and skipped off after a week anyhow.

It is "still Toady's" in that we are the same channel that has been on-and-off linked as the official one, and we've always been more than happy to listen to whatever he has to say about it.

G-Flex is totally right. Let's imagine that you were given a moderator spot here, and disappeared for a year. In that time, a new internal chain of command came up in the forum moderation, the regulars don't remember you, and you just come in completely from the cold and demand to be let back in.

It probably isn't going to happen.

--

Reading your last post, no. That isn't what happened.

[G-Flex]

Edit:  To clarify the point, when the IRC channel was actually Toady's, I was a moderator, and then when the server was switched, whoever was the new admin decided to ignore Toady's previous wishes.  I feel that this in of itself is a good reason to cut ties.

That's because it wasn't up to Toady at the time. Just because Toady made you an op when the channel was new does not mean that you can take it for granted that you will always be one, especially not when you cease going there altogether for several months at a time.

The fact of the matter is that Toady hasn't had an active role in the channel for a very long time. If he wanted to do so, then we would oblige, but he basically left it up to us, and I'm pretty sure Captain has technical ownership of it.

In other words, it's not that we "don't respect Toady's wishes", it's that we think you're being disrespectful in thinking that Toady gave you some sort of divine right to operator status; he didn't. He chose you because you were, for one reason another, a good choice at the time. Then you disappeared, operators came and went, and you showed up again and assumed you'd be given op status again, and when it was declined, you disappeared again.

We have no real reason to say "no" if Toady were to actually request something of us, but in this case, there weren't any standing orders to make sure that anybody assigned operator status when the channel was new would retain that status indefinitely. Hell, that wouldn't even be remotely fair, because then we'd be giving tenure to people because of a years-old decision made by someone who, by his own choice, has no active role in the channel's administration anymore.

Instead of simply assuming you'd get operator status back in a channel you had basically abandoned, you should have stuck around for a while and let it happen a bit more naturally, or at least not gotten all passive-aggressive and ragequit just because you weren't immediately obliged.

It's not important, but I just recall being given moderator status, hanging around that night, and then the next day being told it was revoked because you changed your mind.   That's pretty annoying, to say the least.

If it's not important, then why do you seem so vindictive about it? If it's not important to you, then why pass such harsh judgement so long after the fact?

Also, I hadn't heard of you being made an op and then having it withdrawn the next day; who did that? I'm asking around and nobody knows about it, but I can't get hold of Captain at the moment.

[Capntastic]

Fair enough, but there's really no need to get worked up and portray me as 'demanding' and erratic.  I've switched computers a few times so I don't have logs, and I admit my recollection may not be perfect regarding internet drama events from years ago.  I just remember being pretty upset at the time for being 'cut out'.

My core point, though, stands that Toady had been receiving complaints regarding the IRC, and since he's not in direct control over it, he just doesn't want to deal with it at this point in time.  I'm not trying to say anyone's doing a shitty job or anything, but that's more or less what he's told me in our discussions.  I can see him not wanting to take heat for something he's not involved with.

[Captain Mayday]

It's not important, but I just recall being given moderator status, hanging around that night, and then the next day being told it was revoked because you changed your mind.   That's pretty annoying, to say the least.

I do not remember that happening. I do remember reviewing everyone's Op status at the time, and my decision was heavily weighted towards 'are they around much?'
Months later you would come in and demand ops of me because of Toady's decision. This was wholly unreasonable, in my view, of somebody who had not been around for months. The decision was based on nothing other than the fact you were never there, and I see little reason to allow somebody who is never there to continue being an operator. Had you stuck around and proven an active user, my decision may have changed, but you left forever instead.

[G-Flex]

Fair enough, but there's really no need to get worked up and portray me as 'demanding' and erratic.  I've switched computers a few times so I don't have logs, and I admit my recollection may not be perfect regarding internet drama events from years ago.  I just remember being pretty upset at the time for being 'cut out'.

If you ask for something and get upset when you don't immediately get it, that seems like demanding it to me.

My core point, though, stands that Toady had been receiving complaints regarding the IRC

What sorts of complaints? If there have been complaints regarding anything happening on IRC, we haven't heard about them, and that's a problem.

and since he's not in direct control over it, he just doesn't want to deal with it at this point in time.  I'm not trying to say anyone's doing a shitty job or anything, but that's more or less what he's told me in our discussions.  I can see him not wanting to take heat for something he's not involved with.

Heat for what? I can't think of anything that goes on on IRC that we would be taking "heat" for. I don't want to compare, because they're not similar media, but if Toady doesn't want to deal with the IRC because of issues with its image, the same could be said about the forum; sometimes it seems like a lot of stuff would go totally unreported if it weren't for people stepping into threads that they don't even have interest in in order to act as moderators so that the report system actually works (like the recent sex roleplay in FG&RP).

The worst we get on IRC is a little bickering, and whenever actual problems occur, they are usually resolved pretty quickly these days. Seriously, we're fairly newbie-friendly, answer questions when we can, and don't normally suffer from any significant problems.

Seriously though, if Toady has a problem with something on IRC and doesn't actually tell the people on IRC, that's... not really our fault?