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[SalmonGod]

Manning's actions have aided me in many ways, and it looks to me as though my government has labeled me its enemy.  Not that this is news, but at least they're being up front about it now.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

(removed)

And you, Americans, what will you do?

Absolutely nothing. He brought it on himself by doing something so monumentally stupid.


We've already been over this to death. Exactly nothing of import has come from his actions; he did something monumentally stupid and extremely illegal; and solitary confinement is standard procedure for the protection of such a high profile detainee, especially one so reviled as Manning, simply because were he with other prisoners, especially soldiers, he'd be dead in a matter of hours, if not minutes, and if he was left anything that could be used to kill oneself, a guard could kill him, make it look like suicide, and no one would bat an eyelash at it.

[Cthulhu]

Leaking a bunch of classified documents that show the reality of what happens during a war (And thus groin-kicking support for the military during that war), and can be used by the enemy (Such as the coordinate locations of downed reaper drones and the names of collaborators) is pretty much the definition of aiding the enemy.

[Leafsnail]

Leaking a bunch of classified documents that show the reality of what happens during a war (And thus groin-kicking support for the military during that war)

Uh... if the public support that gets lost was based on incorrect information in the first place, was it really deserved?

, and can be used by the enemy (Such as the coordinate locations of downed reaper drones and the names of collaborators) is pretty much the definition of aiding the enemy.

Never heard of the reaper drones one (and can't seem to find it on Google) but I was pretty sure the identities of the collaborators were withheld.

[forsaken1111]

I don't really give a shit. He broke the law and did something he shouldn't have done, and he is being punished for doing those things. In his situation, I would not have done the same thing. This thread stinks of "Oh the big evil government is shitting on poor Bradley Manning for airing their dirty laundry" when the reality is that he leaked classified information because of some petty grievance and he is being punished in accordance with the law.

I see nothing wrong with the situation.

[SalmonGod]

I think it's incredible that people still insist on calling him petty or claiming that his actions have had no impact.

He revealed nothing to anyone that's been paying attention with a critical eye, but to everyone else he finally proved conclusively the existence and magnitude of criminality and lies surrounding the wars of the last 10 years.  This includes the lies we'd been fed about the military keeping no records of casualties, which by admittance of their own internal records has turned out to be over 60% innocent civilians.  This flies in the face of everything we've been told for so long, and everything we've been promised that our tax dollars and lives have been sacrificed for.

I don't have words to describe how offensive the flippant marginalization of Manning is to me.  As far as I'm concerned, he's a hero and I am not surprised but still beyond outraged as his treatment.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

I think it's incredible that people still insist on calling him petty or claiming that his actions have had no impact.

What exactly has come about from it? Sweeping reforms? Mass public outrage (focused towards the military's handling of the situation)? Criminal investigations (of people other than Manning)? Obnoxious pundits and small-time politicians trying to capitalize on the information to harp on about things on either side of the issue? Guess which one it's turned out to be. (I'll give you a hint: it's the last one.)

He revealed nothing to anyone that's been paying attention with a critical eye, but to everyone else he finally proved conclusively the existence and magnitude of criminality and lies surrounding the wars of the last 10 years.  This includes the lies we'd been fed about the military keeping no records of casualties, which by admittance of their own internal records has turned out to be over 60% innocent civilians.  This flies in the face of everything we've been told for so long, and everything we've been promised that our tax dollars and lives have been sacrificed for.

To quote paraphrase myself from the last thread, "war is a filthy fucking business, and too many people like to think it isn't, so it is a matter of course to conceal its true nature from the people as a whole."

I don't have words to describe how offensive the flippant marginalization of Manning is to me.  As far as I'm concerned, he's a hero and I am not surprised but still beyond outraged as his treatment.

He had grievances with the actions of some petty officers, specifically the arrest of the distributors of anti-government literature in Afghanistan, so he goes and steals tens of thousands of documents from a completely different branch of US operations, along with random military documents, and leaks them to an effectively random third party without bothering to actually look at them first. Those are extremely petty, antisocial actions, not those of a hero. That exactly nothing has come of it other than his arrest, further drives home the futility and triviality of his actions.

[sonerohi]

It was a noble sentiment that was poorly executed, to ill effect, for bad reasons. Manning displayed massive testicular fortitude at the expense of integrity, honor, and intelligence. His actions are covered by the treason laws pertaining to spy work. He certainly aspired to heroic action, but hit some big obstacles.

[forsaken1111]

Leaking a bunch of classified documents that show the reality of what happens during a war (And thus groin-kicking support for the military during that war)

Uh... if the public support that gets lost was based on incorrect information in the first place, was it really deserved?

Yes.

In a war, you have two choices. Tell the truth, lose public support, lose funding, and lose the war, or conceal the fact, retain public support, get funding, and maybe win the war.

We don't like losing wars, even if we don't like fighting them. Losing a war is almost certainly political suicide for whoever is sitting in 'the chair' at the time. This means it is virtually guaranteed that the people will not be told the truth during the war.

To be fair, we have it a lot better than some other countries, but our military still has a very shitty position. The American people hate the military for fighting the war, hate the methods they must use to win the war, and hate them for losing the war... all at the same time.

[Grakelin]

I have my own concerns to deal with and all of those concerns are apolitical.

I'll have to disagree on this statement - everything that happens in your life is political. And all troubles you have relating to your own prosperity and career can probably trace back to these world politics.

[Max White]

USA, this is a formal request: STOP THIS SHIT NOW. Thank you.

[fqllve]

I'll have to disagree on this statement - everything that happens in your life is political. And all troubles you have relating to your own prosperity and career can probably trace back to these world politics.

I wouldn't say everything that happens is political, but yeah, most things do have a political side to them.

Anyway, my concerns really are apolitical, or at least only distantly political. Mostly improving skills.

USA, this is a formal request: STOP THIS SHIT NOW. Thank you.

I'm sorry, but all complaints must be filed with a form 27b/6.

[Earthquake Damage]

USA, this is a formal request: STOP THIS SHIT NOW. Thank you.

What?  To the whole country?

"The Corinthians, Corinth."

[Max White]

USA, this is a formal request: STOP THIS SHIT NOW. Thank you.

What?  To the whole country?

"The Corinthians, Corinth."

To the whole country as a country, rather then a collective of people.

[Knight of Fools]

USA, this is a formal request: STOP THIS SHIT NOW. Thank you.

I think that's what we're doing right now: We stopped him, and we're working on a trial to make sure he won't do it again.  Be patient.

One of the biggest factors about the leaked documents is that people that once confided and trusted in the US will no longer do so, thus stalling efforts to help provide a peaceful environment over there.  It's already pretty hard to connect with the people there (Most people in Afghanistan don't know why troops are there.  It's a horrible situation that's not really anyone's fault besides Al Qaeda and Bush's decision to invade and prevent further attacks.  He's succeeded in making a shaky position unsustainable, putting efforts to correct damages done in the Middle East back to where they were before.  Some hero.

As much as we want to know everything going on in the world, we often have no need or right to know most of the stuff that goes on.  If you want to be upset at something and be productive, take a long look at most Middle Eastern and African countries and tell them to stop being evil.  The US certainly isn't perfect, but at least some/most people are trying to make things right.  The fact that collateral damages were hidden attests to that: Most dictators want people to know about the atrocities they've committed so that people don't rise up against them.  In the US, if something were done like that, then people would rise up.

I know a lot of soldiers, including family members, and I can guarantee that there isn't any "mass-slaughtering of civilians" going on in Iraq or Afghanistan.  Most or all of it is the result of inhumane tactics on part of the opposing forces, not because soldiers are specifically targeting civilians.  Focus your hate more on the people using children as human shields and suicide bomb bait.  It'd be more productive.


Back to Manning: Honestly, I hope they don't kill the guy - He's obviously not very stable - And last I heard, prosecutors won't be seeking the death penalty.  He's obviously made some very poor decisions and broken the law.  Regardless, I hope he receives a fair trial and, if he does, I'm sure the verdict will carry out the consequences of his actions.  It will probably take at least a year to wrap everything up and convict him, though, so don't get too excited quite yet.  If they do execute him, I'll have to agree that it's a tasteless attempt to discourage a repeat of the situation, but it's also the law.