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[Phmcw]

What the public thinks is necessary and what actually is necessary are almost never the same thing, unfortunately.

I'm gonna ask you to clarify this point, since I don't think I can respond without strawmanning it.

Don't worry, I already got it covered. Strawman included.

Greenwald's insight

[Urist is dead tome]

Looks like phmcw found animated a straw man.

[Journier]

half the shit manning released was already known beforehand.

He deserves to be hung or shot, hes in the military, this shit doesnt fly in the military. Set and live by example. You dont go "lolol im in the military with access to top secret documents, ill just release them all cuz im a hero of the people" The Military isnt some company you work for and have no consequences other than monetary to face up to if you steal and release something they produced.

They military, Owns you from the moment you sign that stack of papers till the date of your release.

I think he deserves as much punishment as any man who did not take the full consequence of his actions into account before doing something so profoundly stupid.

Darwin Award, I hope he gets one.

[Urist is dead tome]

half the shit manning released was already known beforehand.

He deserves to be hung or shot, hes in the military, this shit doesnt fly in the military. Set and live by example. You dont go "lolol im in the military with access to top secret documents, ill just release them all cuz im a hero of the people"

I think he deserves as much punishment as any man who did not take the full consequence of his actions into account before doing something so profoundly stupid.

Darwin Award, I hope he gets one.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Phmcw]

half the shit manning released was already known beforehand.

He deserves to be hung or shot, hes in the military, this shit doesnt fly in the military. Set and live by example. You dont go "lolol im in the military with access to top secret documents, ill just release them all cuz im a hero of the people" The Military isnt some company you work for and have no consequences other than monetary to face up to if you steal and release something they produced.

They military, Owns you from the moment you sign that stack of papers till the date of your release.

I think he deserves as much punishment as any man who did not take the full consequence of his actions into account before doing something so profoundly stupid.

Darwin Award, I hope he gets one.

Are you satirically impersonating a dim witted Nazi or are you serious? First your English is deplorable (mine isn't perfect but you're not even trying) Second the military doesn't own you.
Third, if half of what Manning released was already known then why does this even matter.
Fourth maybe you didn't realized but half the world is behind Manning, so the stupid part doesn't apply. We agree with him. He had every right and reason to release those documents. Or are you saying we should all be shot?

[SalmonGod]

Or are you saying we should all be shot?

Well, we have been labelled as enemies, and Manning is charged with aiding us...

[Cthulhu]

Or are you saying we should all be shot?

Well, we have been labelled as enemies, and Manning is charged with aiding us...

You seem to be suggesting that the leaks aided us in some way.  I haven't seen any change in policy or action.  As far as I'm concerned, his "sacrifice" did nothing.

[SalmonGod]

You seem to be suggesting that the leaks aided us in some way.  I haven't seen any change in policy or action.  As far as I'm concerned, his "sacrifice" did nothing.

It's woken up a lot of people.  It's given people like me direct evidence to back up things we've been trying to tell others for a long time.  It's played at least some part in current events in the middle east.  It's sparked widespread public debate about ethics of information and journalism in a new age of information, which has needed proper attention for a good while.  It's sparked other chains of events which have revealed many things unrelated to the actual documents.  For instance, Anonymous didn't get interested in Wikileaks until after Manning provoked the U.S. government into behaving in a manner they didn't like (openly attacking freedom of speech and virtual privacy, which are Anonymous' most key issues).  Cue HBGary episode, and we learn TONS of stuff about the nature of government/corporate relations, virtual monitoring, and intimidation tactics.

I've seen a lot of shit starting to roll, and I still think it's just beginning.  What would validate this for you?  Are leaders the world over supposed to throw up their hands and go "Oops!  You got us!  Guess we'll change our ways now!"  Is anything less than an instant coup de grace of all evil completely without value?

Major corporate and government powers are uniting, making tons of noise, and mounting all their defenses against this issue.  I haven't seen this kind of energy since 9/11.  I doubt they would be behaving as such if this shit didn't matter.

[Leafsnail]

half the shit manning released was already known beforehand.

He deserves to be hung or shot, hes in the military, this shit doesnt fly in the military. Set and live by example. You dont go "lolol im in the military with access to top secret documents, ill just release them all cuz im a hero of the people" The Military isnt some company you work for and have no consequences other than monetary to face up to if you steal and release something they produced.

Ah yes, the kindof top secret military documents half of which everyone knows, and which are on a database millions of random government workers can access.  I think that alone is an interesting leak - perhaps the US will look after its confidential documents more carefully in future.

They military, Owns you from the moment you sign that stack of papers till the date of your release.

I think he deserves as much punishment as any man who did not take the full consequence of his actions into account before doing something so profoundly stupid.

Darwin Award, I hope he gets one.

In a nutshell, no they don't.  You make a contract and agree to follow their rules, but you aren't selling yourself into slavery.

Darwin awards are only awarded if it would be very clear that death would result.  Apart from anything else, death is probably not going to result.

[Sowelu]

Spoiler: "Use of the death penalty, by country" (click to show/hide)

Blue = Abolished
Green = Only for war crimes, similar extreme circumstances
Orange = Abolished in practice
Red = Actively practiced

It's not clear if Manning's case would fall under 'green' or 'red', but look at that map and think of how the rest of the world sees us.  Worse than Europe, worse than Eastern Europe even, worse than the entirety of Central and South America, and worse than wide chunks of Africa.

Who uses the death penalty?  Well...Northeastern Africa, the Middle East, eastern Asia, and us.

WHAT GREAT COMPANY WE'RE IN

I'm feeling downright patriotic!

[Cthulhu]

Don't get me wrong, I'm against the death penalty, but "worse" is subjective in that context.

[Sowelu]

The government killing civilians?

Sometimes including political prisoners? (Very arguable, but it's there)

HELLO, CHINA.  Yeah "worse" is not subjective.

[eerr]

I think, he needs to be left in Iraq. At least one of our 'informants' will be able to take care of him.

If the informant wasn't shot and killed already that is.


Where are you guys getting the idea that this guy is some sort of hero?

[Darvi]

Because he's being a dick to the government?

[Megaman]

He committed acts of treason by supplying classified documents to a third party. No problems here. Bastard knew of the risks when he did this.