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[Ganthan]

I recently had an idea about a trap laden bridge being the only way into my fortress.  Probably not an original idea by a long shot but I wanted to run this by and see what you all think of it.

. = open space
# = wall
* = floor
@= floor with weapon trap
^ = entrance to fort

#**@**#
#**@**#
#**@**#
#**@**#
#**@**#
#**@**#
#**@**#
#**@**#
#**@**#
#**@**#
# ^ ^ ^#

To friendlies it appears to be a classy five tile wide bridge leading into the fortress, except that the floors around the weapon traps are actually long thin drawbridges opening opposite ways.  Once trouble brews, a flip of a lever raises the bridges into this:

## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
## . @ . ##
#  ^  ^ ^ #

Now as enemies try to walk over that one tile wide bridge they face a blunt weapon trap every step of the way and if they dodge or get knocked left or right they fall into a pit.  You could make this only needing to embark with ten copper bars and fuel and build the rest with local stone.  I have a few questions regarding this design, though.

1. Can blunt weapons in traps knock enemies around?
2. How far a fall is necessary to break legs?  To kill outright?

[plisskin]

5+ Z-levels for the pitfall if you want crippling injuries guaranteed.

I use this design for my forts minus the bridges. Fool gobbos dodge into the pits and it's lights out. It's practically impenetrable except for a really big siege clogging all the traps up, trapavoid Kobolds, flying FBs etc.

[bobhayes]

I recently had an idea about a trap laden bridge being the only way into my fortress.  Probably not an original idea by a long shot but I wanted to run this by and see what you all think of it...
1. Can blunt weapons in traps knock enemies around?
2. How far a fall is necessary to break legs?  To kill outright?

Yes, from what I can tell weapons in traps work just like a swing from a regular weapon. It's a nice design, and I will try it out on my next embark.

[ullrich]

5+ Z-levels for the pitfall if you want crippling injuries guaranteed.

That is incorrect, 12 z levels is instant death, anything less is anywhere between death and no injury (favouring injury as it gets deeper but no guarantee), I did extensive testing and had a goblin fall 11 levels unscathed (on stone floor). Also had death at 2 levels (very unlikely), id aim for at least 7 to give meaningful injuries reliably.

[Lamphare]

if you r not going with very deep pit
try to add a staircase leading to the botoom of that pit in the middle
so once enemies emerge, you raise the bridges, shut the door at the bottom of the pit(if there is going to be any)
and you foes would walk to the traps, gotton flapped, fall, walk up, gotten flapped again, fall, walk up and gotten flapped, etc.
for any lucky ones you can just put some cage traps at the end.

[Girlinhat]

My children end up becoming critically injured from 1 level falls, as with deconstructing floors.  The first one fell atop a lever and died, and I figured the lever hurt.  The second fell onto grass and had broken EVERYTHING.  There were not enough logs on the map to make enough splints for that poor child.  Granted, he was up within a year and falling off more buildings... I think he'll be my next militia commander.  He's gotta be toughened up after that.

Anyways, 5 is historically lethal for me.  You can ensure lethality by adding upright spears to the bottom of the pit, since this is the intended purpose of upright spears.  Even training spears, or pillaged elf spears - better yet menacing wooden spikes - add a lot of damage to the fall.

[ullrich]

Dwarves seem more vulnerable to fall damage then monsters/livestock in my testing, the death at 2 was a dwarf, goblins seem to in general take almost no damage at 2.

Edit: Additionally with 12 being instant death, this includes forgotten beasts/monsters, had an ettin, ogre, and hydra verify this.

[Ganthan]

if you r not going with very deep pit
try to add a staircase leading to the botoom of that pit in the middle
so once enemies emerge, you raise the bridges, shut the door at the bottom of the pit(if there is going to be any)
and you foes would walk to the traps, gotton flapped, fall, walk up, gotten flapped again, fall, walk up and gotten flapped, etc.
for any lucky ones you can just put some cage traps at the end.

Pretty much this.  The pit would have a way back out but they'd have to try to cross the trap bridge again.  Once the fortress gets more resources I can always add more weapons to the trap, maybe some serrated steel discs in the last few for the especially lucky or hardy ones, and maybe also lines of fortifications above the sides for marksdwarves.  Heck, I could probably even put a ballista past the end seeing as I'll have a nice straight shot and a convenient pit already there for catching stray bolts.

[plisskin]

5+ Z-levels for the pitfall if you want crippling injuries guaranteed.

That is incorrect, 12 z levels is instant death, anything less is anywhere between death and no injury (favouring injury as it gets deeper but no guarantee), I did extensive testing and had a goblin fall 11 levels unscathed (on stone floor). Also had death at 2 levels (very unlikely), id aim for at least 7 to give meaningful injuries reliably.

5 - 9 usually does it for broken limbs for me, but you sound like you've done your research and I've always spiked my pit floors.

Never gotten a FB to fall 12 Zs before, though, so that's a good "The Moar You Know."

[EveryZig]

Thoughts on traps like this: Repeating spike traps (with lots of spikes) are extremely effective in situations like this, because they don't get jammed. If you are going to use weapon traps, a single high quality serrated disk with a high quality mechanism is more useful than five disks as the single disk can repeatedly cripple enemies (usually) without killing them and getting stuck.
A question else who has tried this: Can repeating spikes hit flying enemies?

[Hyndis]

I used this design for just one fortress. Then never again.

The bridge was 30 tiles long and had a 10 Z level drop right onto a refuse stockpile to minimize hauling. For the sake of redundancy I had 3 levels controlling the bridges, with all 3 being pulled at the same time to ensure proper flinging into the pit of doom.

That was the most boring fort ever.

[EveryZig]

@ Hyandis: So what do you do now? I am too lazy to make a danger room, and my military seems SO weak without one...

Also: testing in the object arena has (probably) shown that having some possible dodge directions walled off does not effect TOTAL dodge rate (though it does make it more likely your enemies will just dodge onto the path). Therefore, you don't necessarily need empty space on both sides of them.

[Hyndis]

Overwhelming firepower from crossbows and glorious hand to hand combat with swords and spears obviously.

Big traps of doom are just too easy. Feels like cheating.

[Ganthan]

Thoughts on traps like this: Repeating spike traps (with lots of spikes) are extremely effective in situations like this, because they don't get jammed. If you are going to use weapon traps, a single high quality serrated disk with a high quality mechanism is more useful than five disks as the single disk can repeatedly cripple enemies (usually) without killing them and getting stuck.
A question else who has tried this: Can repeating spikes hit flying enemies?

The majority of the traps would be mace/warhammer.  Reasons for this:

1. Blunt weapons don't get stuck in enemies so the traps shouldn't get clogged anyway.  With repeating upright spears you'd still have to have a dwarf standing there throwing the lever back and forth.

2. Copper is the second best material for blunt weapons and is super cheap.  You could easily embark with the copper you need to get started.

3. Enemies would get knocked into the pit by the blunt weapon impacts.

4. Serrated discs would only be near the end.  If anyone is lucky or tough enough to actually make it that far, the discs would finish the job or render them so unbelievably fubar even a skinny weaver could finish them off.

[Flaede]

This is a better plan than you think. Weapons-trap-dodgers still die to it if they dodge off the edge of a bridge.