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[RedKing]

I had chickens in my 31.18 fort. I did not have eggs until 31.19. Riddle solved.

Obviously, Toady has spoken on this issue.

[malimbar04]

It hasn't left the main problem of semantics. How do we define the relationship surrounding an egg?

Chickens do not come from a closed cycle (chicken->chicken egg -> repeat). Instead, chickens come from a crazy spiral of similar creatures. IE Dinosour -(lots of steps)-> dino-bird -(lots of stepts)-> bird -(some steps)-> chicken

So we're not arguing about which came first in an endless cycle. We're arguing whether the egg belongs (semantically) to the parent or the child. If we're cutting hairs (and we are), then this is the realm of biology to solve. Where does the material that makes an egg come from?

Well, if you don't fertilize the egg, because you want to eat them and you don't have roosters, then you can still get an egg. Thus the egg is made by the parent. Fertilizing the egg only gives some genetic material, which then combines and makes an embryo inside of the egg. The egg is a container and food source for the coming chicken.

So... the egg belongs to the parent, biologically. The chicken came first, born inside the egg of an animal similar to a chicken but not a chicken.

[PTTG??]

But if you merely compare an egg that is genetically identical to an egg laid by a chicken, and will thus hatch into a chicken (no matter where it came from), to a regular chicken egg, then you obviously can't tell them apart. You could say that an egg is best described by what it contains, since that can be tested, and not where it came from, since you can't always know that.

Which once again puts the egg as first.

[Puzzlemaker]

I am saddened no one commented on my joke.   

[myrkul]

I am saddened no one commented on my joke.   

Perhaps that's because we've seen that comic before.

[Thundercraft]

I am saddened no one commented on my joke.   

Perhaps that's because we've seen that comic before.

Or, perhaps some bloody, disturbing game has twisted our sense of humor so that regular humor no longer registers? 

[Virex]

Wait, when did this thread go from nonsense jokes to serious discussion?

Anyway, this is a semantics problem, but not of the kind you seem to be arguing about. The problem is that a species is not a singular, clearly defined entity. We commonly take a species as a group of creatures that can breed with each other, but not with creatures outside of that group.

The problem of this definition becomes apparent if we take a species of, say, geese that lives along a band from Iceland till deep in Siberia. The Icelandic geese have regular contact with the Nordic Geese and the Nordic geese can breed with the Geese from the Baltic countries, which are related to Moscow Geese and they can breed with Ural geese. Problem is that since Icelandic geese never breed with Ural geese there is nothing keeping them behaviorally or genetically in line. It is highly probable that Icelandic geese are incapable of breeding with Ural geese even though they are members of the same species.

Similar mechanisms work not in distance but in time. It is possible to take 2 points sufficiently apart in time or space and find 2 species, but when one considers a continuum, as one has to when asking the question of "What came first" or "Where are the intermediate species", then it often becomes impossible to draw a hard line between one species and another. After all, you're then trying to fit a sequential definition to a continuum, which rarely fits properly.

[Soadreqm]

The chicken came first, born inside the egg of an animal similar to a chicken but not a chicken.

Wait. Waitwaitwait. Are you saying that the egg... is a chicken?

Mind = blown.

[myrkul]

Wait. Waitwaitwait. Are you saying that the egg... is a chicken?

There. Eternal debate solved. Egg=Chicken=Egg.

Q: Which came first, the chicken, or the egg? A: Yes.

Next question: if Dog is God spelled backwards, why is Satan not spelled "Tac"?

[Virex]

Because he reaches us in other ways?

[Zrk2]

Except chickens did not evolve, tey were selectively bred from jungle fowl. Birds which matched desired characteristics were isolated into breeding pairs, becoming the first generation of chickens.

Stop ruining my argument with your facts!

[malimbar04]

Because he reaches us in other ways?

I declare this a win

[Zrk2]

Because he reaches us in other ways?

I declare this a win

Amen. however, true evil lives in another form: This.

[ForbiddenReaper]

I would say the chicken. As I wouldn't believe personally that a new species of creature would come out of an egg produced by another animal that wasn't originally a chicken. Very hard to explain it but thats my opinion.

[Nadaka]

Bacon comes first, then eggs, chicken shows up sometime around lunch or dinner.