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Author Topic: The Zombocalypse Is Coming  (Read 41837 times)

mainiac

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2012, 11:29:18 pm »

Hooray for skating around and dispensing lead medicine to the undead!
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Yannanth

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« Reply #196 on: January 14, 2012, 09:46:16 am »

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 05:09:11 am by Yannanth »
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Fniff

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #197 on: January 14, 2012, 02:58:40 pm »

Well, I learned that Radiohead is pretty good for "Running away from the undead" type situations.

Anyway, this is really good! Please, continue.

Rumrusher

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Re: Gee
« Reply #198 on: January 15, 2012, 11:38:37 am »

Toning down other survivors just because someone wants to play hermit seems like a buzz kill.
Kinda like finding out the dwarf mode gives you easier enemies if you happen to kill every one but one guy and try to maintain a fort that way.
Alright them Mr Grammar Nazi crossing eveything out, I got a bit confused with my use of language in my ecstasy of joy at hearing "lone wolf"! I was basically saying this: a mode in which you cannot have other survivors with you. But that would take a substantial chunk out of the game, not to mention it would make it devilishly difficult!

Hence, the strength of the baddies would be toned down a tiny bit and all the survivors that previously existed in the world are now your enemies!
You are not a hermit, you're a paranoid maniac who shoots anyone who comes by their way!
Grammar nazi? I was not crossing things out for Grammar, I was crossing things out for humor sake bad jokes only I got going back to discussion. Why not have a "EASY NORMAL HARD" mode and start off with no one? That way those who want to go Paranoid Maniac on their own whims can do so(with selection of difficulty they can play this easier or hard) and those who want to be a loner hermit who trades, at least peaceful can get their way, or go through the game normally.
I was thinking of those who want to role play.
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SealyStar

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #199 on: January 15, 2012, 12:08:17 pm »

Very interesting so far.
But I'd really appreciate an ability to, y'know, choose which Zed I'm shooting at.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #200 on: January 17, 2012, 03:43:08 am »

Talking of dark road, a cool graphic element could be a broken street light that keeps buzzing on and off. That would be sort of creepy, brilliant for atmosphere. You should look at this game for a bit of atmosphere. Con Artist always pulled off the zombie atmosphere really well in his Flash games.

The problem with that currently is that I believe lighting and field of view are by a good margin the slowest operations in the game; more dynamic lighting would probably slow the game down further. I'll need to work on optimization before I can get too fancy with the lighting, since the game still isn't hitting my target framerate.

I don't really understand the technical details of how trace fire works in the way you explained them but I would recommend that the trace is created after you step on a tile should you be moving. If it's created when you are halfway between two tiles, it seems like you're moving faster than the speed of light.

I don't fully understand what the issue you're identifying is -- the trace is created from the center pixel of the player's sprite, regardless of whether they're moving or not. It may be one frame off, so the trace may lag behind the player's center by one frame's movement when the player is moving. This isn't very noticeable on my computer, but I noted your screenshot has 3 logic updates per graphics update due to the low framerate, so it's possible the game is running slowly enough that the player is getting quite far ahead before the trace displays. Does that seem like it describes the problem, or am I misinterpreting?

The AI has a bit of a problem with this. I got stuck here for instance because I ran out of ammunition:

Spoiler: "image" (click to show/hide)

Obviously, I'd have my fists or a knife (+1 if you include a katana, or even better, a chainsaw) to back me up in situations like this but the way they all gang up on you feels a little unfair.

It makes sense that zombies would move slowly through obstacles, so I'll look at making it harder for them to go through windows. With the situation you depicted, I think once the zombies can beat you up and once you can kill them without a gun, being sandwiched like that will be a lot less annoying. You'll either chew your way out of it or you'll die. Both of those features will be ready for this Friday -- I can promise that because they're working on my computer right now. ;)

Finally, a radical recommendation: please make weapons work with clips rather than reloading from the number of bullets you have. It feels unrealistic otherwise. No, you don't need to implement a way to prepare clips by filling all the ones you have with bullets. No need for realism on this scale, but I believe having clips rather than reloading bullets directly (in just one second?!) would be a lot better and make the game that much harder. But not too much. It would make you consider your limited resources, though.

I'll have to think about that. I'm planning to have interchangeable weapons using common ammo, so you can use any pistol ammunition in any pistol. It's not super realistic, but that abstraction streamlines things. The problem that poses is that if I store ammo as a number of clips, the same amount of ammo magically turns into more or less bullets depending on the capacity of the gun you're using.

Nevertheless, this was a great release that definitely reaffirmed my faith in your skills, when is the release date? :)

A lot of the engine is done. Content and gameplay logic are flashier and more fun than working on engine code, so I'm hoping things move pretty quickly from here. That's just a hope though, and I can't say more yet; I may be better able to estimate when more of the game is in place.

When I get close to release, I'll have to stop releasing updates and pull the weekly builds down so that I can prepare to seek out sponsorship money. The sponsor will want the first release of the finished game to be on their website, and since they'll be paying me the moneys, I'll have to respect that. Once the finished game is online, it can be freely distributed throughout the internet. I'll link to it as well, of course.

Very interesting so far.
But I'd really appreciate an ability to, y'know, choose which Zed I'm shooting at.

To support that I'd probably have to use the mouse pointer to aim. Trying that is something I'll think about at least; it'll take a bit of work, but it's certainly possible.
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EuchreJack

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #201 on: January 19, 2012, 09:29:19 pm »

I like the automatic firing, could that be kept with the manual aiming as extension of it?

On the other hand, I imagine most gamers find automatic functions on an action game to be counter-intuitive.  While automatic action and counter-intuitive actions are fine for us B12 gamers, Joe Gamer may not approve.

Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #202 on: January 20, 2012, 03:59:49 pm »

Another Friday update!

Key Changes:
- Melee attacks, including a new knife weapon
- Zombies can attack you and kill you (you can reset the game with escape)
- Door opening and closing (close by holding shift while moving into the door)
- New minimap
- Optional mouse targeting to manually select enemies to attack

Playable Build:
www.jonathansfox.com/ZSS/Z_Alpha_Week3.swf
- Click the screen to give it keyboard focus. Click enemies to mark them as a preferred target.
- Use WASD, number pad, or arrow keys to move.
- Hold space to attack, or bump into enemies to melee them. 1-3 to switch your primary weapon.
- Press escape to reset the game if you die.
- F to toggle flashlight. No flashlight makes you super stealthy.
- Hold shift when moving into an open doorway to close the door instead.

This week I fixed a couple of bugs, then got started on the next core gameplay element -- melee attacks and zombies hitting you. This went pretty quickly because I'd already implemented it in the earlier build, seen in the latest preview video, so it finished up fairly early, including a completely new weapon (the knife). Once player death was in the game, I added a reset button and tweaked some numbers to play with balance and feel for the game, such as making zombies handle difficult terrain much more slowly than humans, making zombies sturdier, and slowing down your move speed.

I then enabled door opening, and added door closing by holding shift when bumping into the door. I'm not sure if that's the best way to handle it; maybe clicking the door, or having shift be a global interaction-on-bump key, complete with icons over things you can interact with while holding it (push/pull icon over a piece of furniture, open/close icons over doors, etc). I have to think about that some more. I moved on to flashing the player and zombies when they take damage, which I think is a small thing that really helps the feel of the game. The videos showed zombies flickering briefly when hit, but I prefer this. I then added a minimap in the bottom of the screen, which shows a scrolling view of the local area of the city you're in, and remembers what tiles you have explored, so you can start filling out your map of the area. The underlying map used by the minimap can later be used in a larger map too.

After serious consideration, I think that point-and-shoot isn't very compatible with the way I'm physically presenting the world, and the very tile-based gameplay I'm going for, so I started to think about other ways to target enemies of your choice. The last thing I did for the game was put the ability to click a zombie and force all attacks to go for that target. The lock-on is only lost if the zombie dies or drops out of range or view; you can shoot past other zombies to target one in the back.
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klingon13524

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #203 on: January 21, 2012, 04:06:41 am »

Now Curses gets to be an even slower forum!
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #204 on: January 21, 2012, 04:25:18 am »

Now Curses gets to be an even slower forum!

I know, right? But it's not appropriate for me to co-opt it into Jonathan S. Fox's personal projects forum.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #205 on: January 21, 2012, 08:42:20 am »

Quote
I'll have to think about that. I'm planning to have interchangeable weapons using common ammo, so you can use any pistol ammunition in any pistol. It's not super realistic, but that abstraction streamlines things. The problem that poses is that if I store ammo as a number of clips, the same amount of ammo magically turns into more or less bullets depending on the capacity of the gun you're using.

Streamlined? you fool, this is bay12 home of the MOST COMPLICATED GAME to exist why the hell do we want things simple? do a thousand different types of ammunition!!! (unless of course that's a bit too much to code)
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Yannanth

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« Reply #206 on: January 21, 2012, 10:01:27 am »

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 05:05:25 am by Yannanth »
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mainiac

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #207 on: January 22, 2012, 01:20:18 am »

Is it supposed to be that you can melee with space or bumping?

Given the chaotic nature of the movement it's difficult to melee by bumping.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #208 on: January 26, 2012, 03:17:55 pm »

(Prepending edit:)
Is it supposed to be that you can melee with space or bumping?

Given the chaotic nature of the movement it's difficult to melee by bumping.

Yes, if you equip the knife, you can melee with space, otherwise you can just bump enemies to knife them, regardless of the weapon you have equipped. I'm not sure how to handle it being hard to bump them accurately -- the real-time nature of the gameplay means you tend to run around them part of the time, especially if they just moved, since then you'll just move into the space they were previously occupying. From a developer's perspective, I feel this needs work. From a player's perspective, I'd suggest equipping the knife and actively holding space when you want to knife zombies up for now.



I haven't worked on the game yet this week, taking a break to do other things. I spent a day preparing and paying state and federal taxes, another day updating my resume and looking into temporary contract design work, and the rest of the week so far trying out the roguelike Cataclysm. I always find it disheartening to see another game do what I'm trying to do better than I've done it so far -- especially when it's a casual not-for-profit game. Which is to say that Cataclysm is great in some dimensions, and anyone excited about what I'm doing should try it out, if you haven't already.

Cataclysm captures a lot of good things in the post-apocalyptic survival genre. Scavenging in that game is extremely satisfying. The dual weight and volume limits work remarkably well to prevent packrat syndrome. Your strength determines how much weight you can carry without becoming encumbered, while your clothes determine how much volume you can carry, with your hands as a free slot that doesn't take up space. Wear cargo pants, a backpack, and a messenger bag to get copious carrying volume, but don't expect that to let you carry four heavy guns and still run quickly if you're too noodly to handle the weight. This forces you to focus on things that really matter, leaving behind guns, food, books, and craft supplies that aren't immediately useful to you, often returning to the same abandoned store multiple times as your needs change.

The clothing system is very impressive. It's flexible, realistic, and easy to understand. Each article of clothing covers a certain part of the body, and has an encumbrance value which reduces your performance using that part of the body. Wearing a backpack increases your torso encumbrance, while wearing steel-toed boots increases your feet encumbrance. Most items can be stacked freely, but stacking similar items adds additional encumbrance penalties (two pairs of pants worn simultaneously will encumber much more than the individual items would indicate -- an intuitive result for anyone who has layered up in cold weather). Some items, like shoes or a helmet, can't be stacked at all.

One of my favorite features is books. My sense in any post-apocalyptic scenario is that books become invaluable. After civilization collapses, the various skills and knowledge needed to carry on with daily life won't match up well with what the survivors have been practicing throughout their lives. A crazy survivalist may already know all about repairing radios, growing potatoes, and cleaning firearms, but a computer programmer probably won't know any of those things, and may not find anyone who does. Without power, the Internet's infrastructure of networked servers will vanish in a puff of smoke, and knowledge about how to maintain and reproduce the artifacts of civilization will be preserved only in books. Cataclysm contains libraries full of books. The novels are entertaining and improve your character's mood, but the real treasures are the non-fiction sections. From cookbooks to informative magazines to college textbooks, a large number of skills can be trained up by just reading the appropriate books. A lot of your skill gains won't come from practice, but from sitting down in libraries.

I don't love everything about it; Cataclysm is ASCII-based, and while that might not bother the majority of roguelike fans and people on this forum, my own hand-made graphics give my game a huge leg up on that count. Another thing that bugs me about Cataclysm is the scale. Streets are so gigantic that road stripes are twice the width of a person, and you can stand in the middle of a street and not see the buildings on either side. I mean, wow. I know why that happens -- Cataclysm's map architecture requires streets to be the same width as grocery stores, and he wanted stores to be big enough to have lots of shelves, but that explanation doesn't make it less strange. It's certainly something you can get used to after playing a few times, but I think the game would benefit noticeably from being scaled down by a factor of 2, so every 2x2 block becomes a single tile. This would also somewhat reduce the need for the game's most annoying feature, the kludgey Run/Safe mode, which freezes input when you see a monster. It's incredibly annoying, but is used to prevent you from getting instagibbed while holding down a move button to travel long distances.

Cataclysm is far from complete and new features are being added all the time, but I don't feel too threatened by it. Instead, I see its popularity, and some of its features, as an inspiration. I'm interested in other ideas people have about things one should be able to do in a post-apocalyptic survival game. What would you miss if I overlooked it? What would make a survival game feel awesome?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 03:23:17 pm by Jonathan S. Fox »
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Aqizzar

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Re: The Zombocalypse Is Coming
« Reply #209 on: January 26, 2012, 03:26:37 pm »

Cataclysm is far from complete and new features are being added all the time, but I don't feel too threatened by it. Instead, I see its popularity, and some of its features, as an inspiration. I'm interested in other ideas people have about things one should be able to do in a post-apocalyptic survival game. What would you miss if I overlooked it? What would make a survival game feel awesome?

Y'know, it's ironic that I would hop into this thread just now.  I remember when you first posted about this game, I was certainly interested in it, but I stopped paying attention.  Meanwhile I've been playing Cataclysm a lot.

If anything, the great thing about games like this, "roguelikes" that are free to obtain (at least for now I guess) is that I don't find myself choosing one or the other.  Rather, playing any one gives an appetite for more that are like it.  The existence of Cataclysm is no threat to me wanting to play your game, it makes me want to play it and compare the differences.

And you some very good comments about Cataclysm's design, which should serve you well in making your own.  I'll be trying to keep up on this.
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