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Author Topic: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal  (Read 491877 times)

Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2220 on: February 26, 2016, 09:55:57 am »

Having played a fair bit of embers, now, I can say length wise, it's not quite as long as the main campaign, but it is longer than either half of it. I'd guess somewhere between 2/3rds and 3/4ths the length. Decently beefy, certainly a significantly more expansive addition than ashes.

Definitely liking the tinkering system -- a more controllable demonologist seed system with several nice gimmicks, which is all kinds of nice -- levels and whatnot are solid enough design wise, not quite sure about the gunslinger and psishot, yet. Like parts of their kit, and the passives involved with ranged and the tinker bits are pretty great, but more iffy on their actives. Sawbutcher is a fair amount of a blast, though, especially once you get a second steam generator. Lot of passive damage, which I like, lot of survivability, saw wheels give a lot of mobility (they're pretty close to a sustainable movement infusion), fairly neat actives... lot to like, lot to like.

Overall enjoying it a fair amount.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2221 on: February 26, 2016, 10:34:02 am »

Sawbutchers are crazily unbalanced though... their sustains are effectively equal to god mode on.
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2222 on: February 26, 2016, 11:47:27 am »

Eeehhhh... they're good (probably even very good), but I'm not sure about god mode. I had more trouble with the stargazers as a sawbutcher than either of the other two tinker classes, ferex, and there's still plenty that's basically a nightmare to approach with 'em. They seem about on par with the older style berserker, back when bloodbath and shattering impact were somewhat silly, imo. which, I mean, that got nerfed pretty hard, so...

... though they do have a bug with saw wheel and metal tempest interaction. Same old problem mindslayers used to have, with the effect proccing every time you move/act as opposed to every turn. Gets silly when you stack up the wheels with movement infusions or whatev'. Damn shame the wheels and the rocket boots are mutually exclusive, though. Flaming chainsaw rollerblades, man. I mean, they already are with overheat going, but... moreso.

Though the description makes it sound more like they're some kind of whirring self-propelled ski pole. Which is also pretty amusing, I guess.

E: Though now I have the most amazing image in my head of an orc attaching itself with chains to a pair of chainsaws sawblades, and basically turning into a steampunk pod racer.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 11:55:16 am by Frumple »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2223 on: February 26, 2016, 12:02:34 pm »

I ate the stargazers with potatoes. And IMO they should have been the hardest boss. But being in a continuous +400% speed while causing damage is uber.

(you know you can install extra generators right?)

PD:

I'm restarting the game. Maybe it was a fluke?

PPD: doesnt seem a fluke to me. slice and dice
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 03:24:32 pm by ChairmanPoo »
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2224 on: February 26, 2016, 04:32:02 pm »

If you're talking about the saw wheels (or pretty much any other movement speed bonus source)/tempest of metal interaction, then yeah, that's kinda' broke at the moment. As I said, mindslayers used to be able to do the exact same thing, and it wasn't intended behavior. If you're managing something like that with just the wheels... I'd love to know how. That was basically getting me killed, before I noticed the tempest exploit.

And yeah, I know about the extra generators, I specifically mentioned that :P

E: Holy shit, the Pain Enhancement prodigy is completely bonkers. I went carry the world for the strength boost synergy, and my full bonus (since the buggery thing apparently refreshes to a degree with the stats it grants) is +85 to every stat. And it's a bonus that refreshes on crit. And one that I'm not specifically kitting for strength for -- my base strength without the prodigy is only 89 or so, on a strength prime character (so ~+29 strength from equipment -- I've got all of that coming from three items). That's completely bloody insane, to the point I'm now thinking about going strength on... basically everything. Tertiary maxed stat, at worst?

Because right now, my idle strength 129 (with the +40 from CtW), has stats in excess of a hundred in literally every one of them once the pain bonus tops off. Compare it, really... carry the world, the highest raw stat boosting prodigy, nets you 40 points. This thing, right now, unoptimized, is giving me a total of 510.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 10:51:34 pm by Frumple »
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2225 on: February 27, 2016, 12:11:18 am »

There's at least one mod that makes advn parties opt-in. May be one or two that just nixes them, too. Might consider picking one up.
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2226 on: February 27, 2016, 02:51:07 am »

Totally. The worst part about giving players any choice at all is that some of them might choose what I don't like (i.e. wrong). Especially in a single-player game.
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2227 on: February 27, 2016, 03:17:02 am »

I won't lie, I've used the "shut that dog up" mod since about a week after I started playing ToME. It's like SkyUI for this game, can't play without it.

Also the skill planner, for that matter.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

woosholay

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2228 on: February 27, 2016, 03:22:07 pm »

Beat it as a sawbutcher on Insane Roguelike (sustains are pretty broken once you get a decent steam generator), surprisingly enough I felt like if there were more options in dialogues, conflict resolutions and whatnot, it would be so much better.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Either i'm just tired of ToME or simply want a bit deeper experience of a full-fledged RPG (which sadly D:OS and PoE failed to deliver in any meaningful way).

Pretty fun expac all around, but it's more of the same kind of deal. I wish they would actually improve the base game in some ways.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 03:28:53 pm by woosholay »
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Aoi

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2229 on: February 27, 2016, 07:01:12 pm »

Flaming chainsaw rollerblades, man. I mean, they already are with overheat going, but... moreso.

Though the description makes it sound more like they're some kind of whirring self-propelled ski pole. Which is also pretty amusing, I guess.

E: Though now I have the most amazing image in my head of an orc attaching itself with chains to a pair of chainsaws sawblades, and basically turning into a steampunk pod racer.

That sounds a lot better than what I came up with: http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Hoopster_-_flaming_Monowheel.jpg
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2230 on: February 27, 2016, 08:55:32 pm »

Beat it as a sawbutcher on Insane Roguelike (sustains are pretty broken once you get a decent steam generator), surprisingly enough I felt like if there were more options in dialogues, conflict resolutions and whatnot, it would be so much better.

Can I get a spoilered explanation? I'm curious if my wild guesses about their writing prove true.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Oneir

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2231 on: February 28, 2016, 08:29:22 pm »

Grr...right at the end of a good run of the expansion, and I get stuck in a Greater Crypt vault. There should be a secret door, but I can't trigger it.

In other news, a nerf has arrived! It just hit Steam, but you can look forward to a lot of fairly obvious nerfs and fixes. (e.g. the new strength prodigy no longer recursively buffs your stats to infinity)
Beat it as a sawbutcher on Insane Roguelike (sustains are pretty broken once you get a decent steam generator), surprisingly enough I felt like if there were more options in dialogues, conflict resolutions and whatnot, it would be so much better.

Can I get a spoilered explanation? I'm curious if my wild guesses about their writing prove true.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 09:00:48 pm by Oneir »
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2232 on: February 28, 2016, 09:24:38 pm »

Yep, that's exactly what I expected. Thanks.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2233 on: February 28, 2016, 09:35:34 pm »

Weellll... not everything. You can leave some things alive, at the end. The very end. Doesn't make much of a difference gameplay wise, but the option's there. And it is, at least, fairly well reasoned why you're actually murdering everything that moves. There's some hefty fluff reasons why less aggressive options aren't really available, which is at least something.

I will say I was pretty disappointed when they didn't let you
Spoiler: Is spoiler! (click to show/hide)
Somewhat unfortunately, it didn't let me go full murder mode when I actually wanted to :P

Also somewhat unfortunately, I don't really get to blame halflings for everything that went to hell in the embers campaign. For once, they weren't the primary culprit :P

E: I will say, I actually kinda' liked how everything tied together, once the whole thing was laid out. Somewhat surprisingly tightly constructed series of events. Plotwise everything is significantly more interconnected than the main campaign was, and almost all of the zones fit tightly into the narrative. Thinking on it in retrospect, it's actually pretty well done. Kinda' pulp steampunk/lovecraftian, but still. There's not much branching or alternate options, but it's pretty solid regardless, imo.

E2: Honestly, my mind keeps coming back to it and sorta' boggling at how stark the difference in the writing/zone lore/etc. is between embers and the rest, now that y'all've got me thinking about it. Like, maj'eyal campaign most of the zones are largely self-contained, there's not really much connection between them and when there is it's mostly fairly weak. In embers, pretty much every zone (I'd say bar maybe two, the forest and the infinite dungeon entrance) is connected to at least one other zone very strongly via lore (and in at least one case via gameplay), and they ultimately all spiderweb their way back to the final zone and the campaign's last act. The lore bits explain boss motivations, character motivations, why you're doing several things, generally sets the stage up where the player is actually acting fairly sensibly given the situation they're involved in and why they're largely forced to, as opposed to the very murderhobo ethos of the rest of the game... it's honestly what I'd call actually pretty damn good for video game plot and setting writing. Perhaps bit linear and light on direct character conversation/interaction, but I don't actually think the campaign suffers for it.

It's... y'know, it's almost like System Shock 2's log data, or something fairly similar in implementation. It's a pretty strong showing, if y'ask me. I wouldn't say the texty bits detract from the experience, in the least, and definitely adds to it if you're paying even minimal attention. Compared to the original where you can mostly just ignore the text and you'll miss barely anything directly related to what you're actually doing (it's much more setting/world exploration than narrative/plot), the difference is pretty close to night and day.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 11:14:00 pm by Frumple »
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Oneir

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #2234 on: February 29, 2016, 08:41:23 am »

The forest ties loosely back to the general thread of "the world is messed up, for serious" and the theme of the various factions and politics developing after, and in response to, your character wrecks face in the previous campaign. The ruined dungeon is just pure gaminess, though.

I think, so far (still stuck in a vault in the last dungeon. :|), the least satisfying part for me has to be the pocket of disturbed time. The Temporal Rift is pretty memorable, and has a kind of soft build check. The pocket just has a lot of traps and inexplicably friendly orcs, and an amazingly easy boss fight (at least for a pre-nerf sawbutcher, but I wasn't really abusing their abusable tricks, so). Was the idea that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I wouldn't really call the writing in that zone silly exactly, but it sort of reminds me of a style of amateur fiction.
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