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Author Topic: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal  (Read 491985 times)

Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1485 on: January 09, 2014, 01:28:29 am »

I just now (after picking this game up almost a year ago) unlocked Paradox Mage. Made a temporary character just to look at the skills... and they're inspired! Brilliant, even. You can tell DarkGod had a fun with that one.

Also re: the patch apparently it also fixed a massively annoying bug I had where, once Derth got hit with the storms, it would stay almost completely dark for the remainder of the game. I basically couldn't see anything there after level 15. I'd grown so used to it it felt weird seeing the sky brighten this time.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1486 on: January 09, 2014, 02:06:54 am »

Haha. DG didn't code the temporal classes :P

Mostly, anyway. Edge did the majority of the work on those two, and I think the solipsist as well. The afflicted classes and mindslayer were also done by other folks, iirc. For all that DG's done most of the work re: T4, there have been a handful of other major contributors. DG does still tend to do a bit of tweaking and/or streamlining along the way (and often helps out with coding support and whatnot anyway), but several of the classes are mostly dealt with by other coders.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 02:10:56 am by Frumple »
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1487 on: January 09, 2014, 02:36:27 am »

Haha. DG didn't code the temporal classes :P

I did not know any of that, so... fair enough. Now I wonder if there's anything else on the table, should Stone Warden actually make it to the base game like I had heard long ago. There's no shortage of class mods and oozemancers seem pretty set in their role as the go-to OP class even post nerfs.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1488 on: January 09, 2014, 07:51:54 am »

Anyone has any tips for Marauder early game builds ?

From my few tests, i always have them having a lot of trouble in early game, from the skill description the class seem to become strong only past level 10 when you can unlock some very good skill trees.
But early game is a real pain :

It seems you need to increase several stats at once to really get the better of your skills , the early game available skills deal only very weak damage in comparison to early game of other class, but you need to prioritize Dexterity because without enough dexterity you're going to miss more than 50% of your strikes and skills hits.

Their main purpose of the early skills is to stun/confuse, but as every effect skill you can only hope it will work on the enemy as if he's generated with high immunity, you're wasting stamina and turns while getting damaged.
From my test you only start to get decent damage once you get Flurry, +/- at level 4

Stamina is very low, and Marauder skills consume a lot of them, i noticed if you use 4 skills, you're out of stamina early game, and if the monster is not dead by then, you're in high trouble (very likely to happen a lot if you didn't got enough points in dexterity as most of your skills will have missed).

The only way to improve that small stamina pool, out of leveling + finding good stamina items, is  to increase your willpower, but in early game you really need dexterity (as said before if you don't want to miss more than 50% of your hits) and constitution (for the health as you take a lot of damage early game) and if you find good weapon/armor  you may even want more strength to use them.

Basically in early game you don't have enough stats for everything despite you would really need them.

So any tips to make early Marauders game less of a big pain ?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 07:54:11 am by Robsoie »
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1489 on: January 09, 2014, 10:12:24 am »

I did not know any of that, so... fair enough. Now I wonder if there's anything else on the table, should Stone Warden actually make it to the base game like I had heard long ago. There's no shortage of class mods and oozemancers seem pretty set in their role as the go-to OP class even post nerfs.
DG's stated the stone warden will go non-donator when a new donator class is introduced. Dunno if he's changed his mind on that since, but that was the original stance on it. Pretty sure there was even a blog post on the main page about it.

It seems you need to increase several stats at once to really get the better of your skills , the early game available skills deal only very weak damage in comparison to early game of other class, but you need to prioritize Dexterity because without enough dexterity you're going to miss more than 50% of your strikes and skills hits.
You need dex for stat reqs and it's not a bad idea for dagger scaling, but for accuracy that's what the combat accuracy talent is for. Just stick a point in that whenever you can and hitting stuff won't be much of a problem at any point in the game (barring the occasional extreme defense anomaly). This... is what you do with every melee class, ever. Also, most stuff that says its chance to effect scales with dex... actually scales with accuracy. Or did, anyway.* That and "scales with magic" (actually scaling with spellpower. I think the game's better about that nowadays.) was one of the more notorious "the tooltip is lying to you" things for a while. Check the code!

*Actually, checking the tooltips it does look like it's better about not lying to you. If it says you just need accuracy, accuracy is all you need. Dexterity does increase that, but so do a number of other things. Combat accuracy is obvious and largely sufficient for a long, long time, but there's also dexterity gloves and a handful of other egos to keep an eye out for (steady, I think "of the archer", probably others. Weapons of balance, of course, which are doubly good for a marauder if they're going defense tank).

Quote
Their main purpose of the early skills is to stun/confuse, but as every effect skill you can only hope it will work on the enemy as if he's generated with high immunity, you're wasting stamina and turns while getting damaged.
From my test you only start to get decent damage once you get Flurry, +/- at level 4
If you're going daggers, a couple points into the dagger mastery passive will have you doing plenty of damage to clear out the first tier dungeons and make the second tier ones more palatable. By that point, as you note, you've got access to flurry and pretty much anything else you'd be interested in having and should have plenty of damage options. A GWF flurry is a thing of glory and awe, if you choose to kick open battle tactics (and you probably will, eventually).

Quote
So any tips to make early Marauders game less of a big pain ?
You're fine until level four (I've regularly beat Prox with sub-10 accuracy and basically no active talents on adventurers. It takes a while, and a lot of kiting while you regen, but it's very possible.), after which you can pick up a point or two in fast metabolism. I find a decent amount (5-10) of passive regen massively eases the game up until Daikara or so. You've also got the option of cracking open tactical (as a cornac) and starting down the defense-tank path, which Marauders are pretty good at and mostly trivializes the early game. You should be mostly fine just stabbing crap with knives, though. Trawl the stores for some steel or massacre iron and the damage should come naturally.
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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1490 on: January 09, 2014, 10:36:12 am »

I found what is the marauder problem actually : weapon

On all my attempts i didn't found a single better dagger than the default one.

Now on my skeleton marauder attempt, i just found on the 1st floor much better daggers (not artifact but still much better).

And then the game changed a -very- lot for his damage output and monster killing stuff, even the undead start boss that was unkillable on a previous marauder attempt just fell rather quickly.
The class plays then completely differently as you're not in lethal danger at every single battle anymore but you can deal more real damage than with those crappy default daggers.

So basically, you need luck in early loot to get a decent early marauder, or you're going to get a lot of heavy pain due to you not killing fast enough things that can deal huge blows.

Now if only this had happened on a previous non skeleton attempt, that experience huge malus is nasty
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1491 on: January 09, 2014, 10:40:48 am »

Yeah... like I said, stores. You can at least pick up something with some additional on-hit, which can pretty easily increase iron damage by 50-100%. Probably have to sell off some gems, but a good shopping trip is usually all it takes to kick off a rogue subclass. Daggers get painful, but those iron ones are pretty much the shoddiest weapons in the game.
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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1492 on: January 09, 2014, 10:50:20 am »

Yeah... like I said, stores. You can at least pick up something with some additional on-hit, which can pretty easily increase iron damage by 50-100%. Probably have to sell off some gems, but a good shopping trip is usually all it takes to kick off a rogue subclass. Daggers get painful, but those iron ones are pretty much the shoddiest weapons in the game.

wish there were stores in that dungeon when i was trying a few ghouls :D

Anyways, i thought this problem was fixed, but obviously it is still there in the latest version.

When you leave an area, you have the loot panel popping up so you can move the items you want into your inventory, and let the ones you don't want to be transmogrified.

My skeleton was followed from very close by a vault skeleton when he went on stair, luckily i wasn't damaged (shield rune helps).
As there were some good loot, i was moving a few to my inventory then noticed in the world map i was at 14 health ?

So beware, that annoying old problem in which you can get hurt/killed despite you have already moved out of an area is still there in 1.1.4 when you manage the loot panel popup
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1493 on: January 09, 2014, 11:59:58 am »

Did you change your equipment while juggling the loot? Changing equipped items takes a turn and if something was right next to you they could get a shot in.


Unrelated..... Is there any way to forcibly terminate a dream? I'm on the Lost Man dream and it looks like it's bugged. I've explored everywhere, two of the yeeks splurched but neither spawned the greatmother, so now the map's clear and I can't leave. I can't stab myself as far as I know, and despite the game's insistence to the contrary, I'm not ACTUALLY losing health. SO...... now what?
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1494 on: January 09, 2014, 12:07:23 pm »

No, i was just moving loot into inventory, but only after i moved up stairs (into the worldmap), so whatever was down there with me is still down there and shouldn't be able to hit me.
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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1495 on: January 09, 2014, 01:43:12 pm »

Looks like i was right with my build attempts and what is really making -all- the difference between a marauder that will have a really painful early game and a marauder that will annihilate everything he can see in early game is how good your daggers actually are.

So the best marauder advice you can have for early game is to rush toward town shops and get good daggers if you're unlucky and can't get some good ones in early loots.

My skeleton marauder character just reached level 18 (only Daikara left to do in the tier 2 dungeons ) is nearly unchallenged by everything coming at him, and does amazing damage at that point

On that run i currently found 3 new artifacts , the dagger is amazing as it deals much better damage than what i had so far and that bonus to dexterity is just wow considering marauders loves dexterity :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1496 on: January 09, 2014, 01:59:02 pm »

Unrelated..... Is there any way to forcibly terminate a dream? I'm on the Lost Man dream and it looks like it's bugged. I've explored everywhere, two of the yeeks splurched but neither spawned the greatmother, so now the map's clear and I can't leave. I can't stab myself as far as I know, and despite the game's insistence to the contrary, I'm not ACTUALLY losing health. SO...... now what?

Fixed it. Didn't think you could actually bind the regular attack to a button, so I just stabbed myself repeatedly.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1497 on: January 09, 2014, 02:40:17 pm »

Bloody hell, +20 dex? That's, like, end-game merchant artifact level stat boost, on a dwarven-steel level dagger. That's insane.

Actually, that dagger is insane in general. If that's representative of the new stuff, I think T4 just got yet another level of power creep, yikes.

And oh hey, acid flurry on a cloak. That... that's great. Not like ABs or whatever needed a second flurry to go along with the first one.

... looks like DG may have gone crazy again. Or whoever it was that designed those things. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing (I mean, hell, I enjoyed Portralis, I'm not going to blink at this. T4 still only ends up using exponential notation when it bugs out, instead of during the normal course of the game.), but...
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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1498 on: January 09, 2014, 02:48:06 pm »

For the dagger , i think moving it to tier 5 would be a good idea if the +20 dex is kept (it's just awesome on dex-dependant builds) so it's only to be found in late game


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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1499 on: January 09, 2014, 02:53:24 pm »

Wow, my marauder at level 19 just one shotted the Weirling Beast with a critical on Flurry !


I hope it's an omen of more good things coming and not the game preparing to spawn unbeatable enemies later :D
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