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[Frumple]

One really interesting thing about stealth and shadowstrike is that shadowstrike will go off so long as you have stealth active. Which, yes, means that you can get the shadowstrike boost even on things that have otherwise seen you; so long as you have't broken stealth, you get the shadowstrike boost. Shadowstrike flurries will, unsurprisingly, wreck many different variations of day

And re: focused TW: I definitely agree it's possible; my TW winner (albeit many versions back and utterly ridiculous -- four stats over 200, ultimately broke the game in the post-game by getting movement speed below zero, etc.) was primarily melee spec'd. Doing so closes off parts of your toolset unnecessarily, though, which is why a focused TW is going to be weaker almost necessarily.

That said, if you are going to focus, definitely focus on either a ranged or caster (or hybrid archer/caster) build; TW mobility means you completely trivialize most melee enemies in the game innately (celerity kiting means you can kill pretty much anything without rush or a ranged talent with tier one ammo all the way up into the late game) and bows later in the game both do utterly ridiculous amount of damage (especially randart ones that manage to stack some speed reduction) and are much, much safer for the relatively squishy warden.

As for armor training, I'd be cautious. You can do it, but remember and remember well that fatigue (coming from, say, the heavy or massive armor you have to wear to really take advantage of heavy investment in armor training) makes you more likely to bugger up your paradox talents. Either that or makes the more likely to explode badly... something like that. Fatigue on a chronomancer is a bad thing nowadays Of course, a nice lil'feathersteel amulet can make most fatigue problems go away, and chronomancers really like the improved feathersteel amulet, so...

[Robsoie]

Thanks for the advices for Rogue, i'm new to them.

And ARGHHHH

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Was in the ruined halfling complex and using whirlwind while being stealthy on an elite skeleton i noticed the damage :

+/- 666 damage , yes ! to me Marauder unlock

And then ...
...
..
No Marauder unlock screen ? what perfidy is that ?
I then looked on the tome4 wiki and noticed

Do over 600 damage in one hit as a Rogue. Counts only for individual components of damage, not total damage.

Oh the treachery !
 ... oh well hopefully soon

[Robsoie]

Yes !

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My Rogue had just reached level 21 and got lucky on this one, a Shadowblade that was lost alone in the Daikara.

Funny that at level 21 my Cornac Rogue that does not have much Constitution (didn't put any points so far, but will do from now) has already the double of health than my poor Yeek Archimage had (despite i increased his Constitution) at the same level.
No wonder everything seemed to be able to one-shot the poor guy at that level.

Only 2 classes left, the 2nd one from the Temporal branch and the new one that i'm not going to unlock in b42 due to the Caldera ruining my saved game if i enter in it.
 

[Frumple]

T3 and T4 are almost absolutely nothing alike; T3 was mostly an attempt to port T2 into the T-Engine Darkgod was working on at the time. T2 and T3 are a lot closer in style... I'm also not entirely sure T3 was ever actually finished, though there's at least one player-made dingus that's complete (The dragonball mod-whatsit), or at least winnable.

If you're looking for the *band variant experience, go with T2, not T3. Or... don't, really. *Bands are kinda' stale, imo You might try furyband, though it's a little crazy.

Or steamband. Steamband's just about the only *band variant I'd really recommend, ha. Unless you count Sil, I guess. Or a few other things. The *bands are alright for what they are, but they're definitely a different sort of beast compared to the other major roguelikes.

[dei]

-a metric fuckton of useful advice I am saving to a txt for my own personal use-

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it. I'll make use of it sometime tonight as I've just thought out the concepts needed for me to make my Temporal Warden and Shadowblade. I'm working on concepts for Summoner, Archer and Arcane Blade as well, so I'll ask about those next time.

However I don't really find the t4 forums, IRC or the ingame chat to be as helpful as coming here and asking people in a thread that is both themed around the game and in a more comfortable environment. I always feel iffy about phpbb forums and IRC anyways, and ingame chat goes by too fast in the main window and not fast enough with the logs.

Soliphists are the only class that should have no trouble taking out soliphist rares, since their main threat is that they will sleep you for like 5 turns and do like 500 damage and eat through all your sheilds, if you have the lucid dreaming talent on (which you should always have on at least at level one as soon as you get it), then they can't sleep you, and become a pushover pretty much.

I can regularly take out Soliphist rares with an Archmage and careful use of tactics. I fight at least three every other run from what I recall, but then again I'm talking about Solophist rats, slimes and skeletons. I haven't gotten a character past level 23 either and the worst I've fought was a pair of Soliphist adventurers. Never again.

[DeKaFu]

Soliphists

Soliphist rares Solophist rats Soliphist adventurers

Nooooo

It's solipsist.

I've been playing this a lot lately. I managed to get a halfling rogue up to level 20 before dying miserably, and am currently running a dwarf wyrmic. I'm around level 18 with my skills spread pretty thin. Having a lot of trouble deciding which drake skills are worth the points. :/

Edit:
As a more general question, is it generally advisable to toss all your stat points into the main 2-3 stats for your class, or is it better to spread things around a bit more?

[Frumple]

All of the breathes

Particularly sand, but ice and lightning also help with the crowd control. You want swallow, especially if you go antimagic, and doubly so in the mid-game and beyond; the higher level the enemy, the more equilibrium swallow restores on consume. You can expect to keep antimagic shield running indefinitely on a higher end wyrmic, if you go antimagic. You probably want burrow, eventually (it's been recommended previously on this thread, by someone else: Mix burrow with lightning speed or a movement infusion for an incredible escape method), and quake can do some interesting stuff (it moves anything.).

You definitely want lightning speed, though how many points in it is up to you, so long as you have at least one. In all seriousness, one of your two starting class points should be going into it. The other two storm talents are somewhat iffy, but not terrible (just not wonderful) now that static field can land on more stuff. The flame talents are solid enough, especially the first tier one once you've got some stats to back it up; confusion is incredibly powerful. The rest of the fire ones are just fairly solid damage talents.

E to the E: Generally you're going to max your primary stat, followed by your secondary, only dipping into other stats as necessary. A wyrmic, ferex, might put a bit in con if they're having trouble with their HP and a bit in dex if they're having trouble hitting things, but is mostly going to be putting everything into strength and then willpower, or the other way around depending on which talents you're focusing on first. They might go 2/1 into both and alternate or something, too. You hit level cap pretty quickly (early/mid teens, iirc) if you're going all-in on a single stat, and can spread the leftovers around as needed after that while still keeping your primary stat topped off.

Things get more complicated with classes that have more that two major stats (arcane blades, ferex); generally for them I find that beelining for your talent's stat reqs is most important, after which you can invest as needed to cover holes or boost effectiveness, whatever you need.

[DeKaFu]

Thanks for the advice. I've already got 3 points each into Sand Breath and Fire Breath, 2 points in Lightning Speed and have Antimagic just opened.

Any thoughts on Icy Skin? The extra damage was nice at the start but I'm not sure it'll be worth much in the long run. Is it worth investing in/keeping turned on just for the armor boost?

There's a lot of intriguing classes and races in this game that I want to try that I've never managed to unlock, and probably won't for a long time since I'm generally avoiding unlock spoilers. I actually kind of like the fact that you need to unlock things... It means you have something to look forward to when your better-than-ever-before character inevitably gets killed.

[Frumple]

Most wyrmics I've seen run with icy skin just as a matter of course, yeah. The damage is nice in the early game, and it's a very solid armor boost later on once you've got some armor training and heavy or massive armor on. S'just a pretty decent sustain, really.

You might consider avoiding going full out into it if you're not intending to go above leather for your body armor, though. Deciding on that probably depends on if you find nature's blessing or not, heh, since you're running antimagic.

[lemon10]

-a metric fuckton of useful advice I am saving to a txt for my own personal use-

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it. I'll make use of it sometime tonight as I've just thought out the concepts needed for me to make my Temporal Warden and Shadowblade. I'm working on concepts for Summoner, Archer and Arcane Blade as well, so I'll ask about those next time.

However I don't really find the t4 forums, IRC or the ingame chat to be as helpful as coming here and asking people in a thread that is both themed around the game and in a more comfortable environment. I always feel iffy about phpbb forums and IRC anyways, and ingame chat goes by too fast in the main window and not fast enough with the logs.

Soliphists are the only class that should have no trouble taking out soliphist rares, since their main threat is that they will sleep you for like 5 turns and do like 500 damage and eat through all your sheilds, if you have the lucid dreaming talent on (which you should always have on at least at level one as soon as you get it), then they can't sleep you, and become a pushover pretty much.

I can regularly take out Soliphist rares with an Archmage and careful use of tactics. I fight at least three every other run from what I recall, but then again I'm talking about Solophist rats, slimes and skeletons. I haven't gotten a character past level 23 either and the worst I've fought was a pair of Soliphist adventurers. Never again.

If you are careful (and recognize them as soon as they appear ideally), then you should be able to take them out without that much problem, ESPECIALLY if you have played one before (otherwise they are kind of a black box).
As any class that heavily relies on shields, they are extremely dangerous, as they are very easily able to break a 1000 point shield (especially if they they aren't alone) and deal you 100 points of damage on top of that (with some bad luck you can go from 1000 point shield+full health to dead between actions).

Whoa Frumple, those there are some huge posts. Thanks! You too, Ranger

I generally prefer melee classes to ranged ones, and back in b038 melee TW was quite possible. Guess I'll try a generalist/ranged one.

I also tried Solipsist, and it's balls out easy. You can tank through almost anything and do incredible sustained damage. Really, really needs a nerf. You have great CC, you can base your entire defence on your mental saves, you have a controlled phase door... My first death was to a fellow Solipsist unique, albeit a snake. Then I died 3 times to the Minotaur since I hadn't anything to rid me of stun, so I got mad and quit.

Weirdly enough I feel I don't like the Solipsist. Sure, he plays great, is really powerful and has some fun talents... I don't actually know why I don't like it. Ever had this happen to you? There's a class in an rpg or whatever that you ... just don't like in general. Without a reason. Kind of the opposite of how I feel about Doomed and Cursed. Maybe it's the [miniature] lore, like ability description and even names of talents.

Wow, this feels dumb when I try to type it out. On the other hand the Dreamforge line of talents is incredible. I could base a god damn novel on that thing alone.

Yeah agree with everything you say here (well, don't know about the Dreamforge talents, since I haven't really tried them out).
And yeah, Soliphists (Yeah, thats right mister "Hey, don't spell things completely wrong", I will spell things wrong any way I want  ), would be totally awesome as mages or a class/category of magic in a fantasy universe.

You should have almost no trouble beating the game as a Yeek Solopist. Next version they will probably be nerfed quite a bit, so that window of opportunity will be closed.
On my second try with a Sopolist (first try ended due to game glitching out on me), I got to level 44 (10 levels farther then I have gotten, and quite a few quests further then I have ever gotten before), in addition, almost all of my deaths were completely avoidable if I had been thinking a little better or paying more attention or just a little more prudent (except one where the game killed me in three turns when I accidentally moved three times due to terrible lag).
They are so strong, they have excellent utility (group sleeps, individual sleeps that easily work on bosses, knockback, vortex that sucks enemies in), damage (mindblast, nightmares (which is a 5 turn disable+500 group damage)), tankiness (due to how they avoid damage), pretty good summons (you can summon clones of a boss using one of your abilties that can tie him down for like a dozen turns, (and if yeek the yeek mindslayers as well)), crazy hard TO disable (get crazy high saving throws for everything, they can probably sleep anything nearby if they aren't outright dazed, immune to silence, immune to sleep, can regenerate all their psi in a single turn with a simple healing infusion).
Yeah, they are pretty boring though, especially compared to archmages (who they can eat for breakfast in battle if they were both played with human level intelligence).

EDIT: I am pretty sure saving throws aren't perfectly linear (eg. a +10 to mental save doesn't give +10 if your mental save is already there), does anyone know how exactly your saving throw is determined?
EDIT2: If you are planning on playing a solypist, then you should avoid the discharge and thought form tree. Discharge does damage about equal of what you already sustain, requires you not to move or cast any other abilities and basically require that you get wailed on if you want to get a decent damage from it, as well as having to have like 6 enemies in view the whole time its on (even with like 8 points in it its pretty useless). Thought-form doesn't scale very well and isn't really much good as anything other then distraction (which it might be worth putting 4 points into just so you can summon each of them one after the other to soak up some damage).

[Frumple]

It's tiered. For saves 1-10, one point from kit or talents equals one point for the stat. For 11-20, two points equal one point, 21-30 three, etc. I think saves functionally cap at 100 (if it would be higher, it displays as ** and doesn't really matter), and the powers, defense, accuracy, all use the same system now. Weapon damage does not, though; it can happily get well, well over 100 and is linear, no scaling.

It may be 1-9, 10-19, etc. Still, something like that. There's better details from folks that actually bother to remember how the numbers work over on the main t4 forum. Frumple just knows that more = better and doesn't really pay attention to a metric beyond that

E: Strong disagreement on thought-forged, especially if you're planning on doing anything with feedback. They're your best source of getting feedback and easily one of the best summons in the game, with excellent scaling, random kit, and the ability to turn into damage monsters when under the effect of overmind. I'm still not 100% sure how well they do in the 40-50 level range, but my yeek solipsist that's in the thirties has been soloing farportal bosses with overmind thought-forged and the bonus you get from having a defender or warrior (especially warrior) up is pretty big. Major reqs, and having a second target around can never be underestimated.

I'd recommend 5/5 first tier, I think three into second (there's a point where they get two tlvls for one point investment, it's either two or three points invested), and 5/5 last tier (but a flat minimum of one, to get the feedback return), with as much in overmind as you can spare. 5/5 overmind on a bowman with a high level bow is an absolute monstrosity, and can do more damage in a single turn than a lot of things in the game.

[dei]

I managed to get Weissel - my female Higher Temporal Warden - to level 9 after going through Trollmire then Norgos' Lair and then taking on Bill the Stone Troll. I think I've got an okay ranged/melee/caster build on Weissel going but what I'm wondering is what inscriptions go best with a Temporal Warden overall.

Right now Weissel has a psychic's regeneration infusion as well as a psychic's wild infusion that cures physical and magical ailments and I think a sneak's wild infusion that cures mental ailments. That seems to have worked well so far but in the long run what kind of inscriptions should she have?

Tomorrow I'm going to play some more with Weissel and spend time with Granmeri - my female Higher Archmage - and work on starting Aldeen - my female Higher Alchemist - up again as well. Right now I'm too tired to consider doing that right now, as it's been a stressful weekend with the partying my roommates have been doing and with one of my friend's in the hospital.

[Frumple]

With a three inscription warden, I'd go regen/wild/movement, barring artifact stuff... possibly shield instead of regen, if I was trying to diversify to avoid saturation trouble (and had some kit regen or something to help with resting an' crap). With a four, probably a shield rune or rune of the rift. Five, either another regen, a heal, or a second shield. Possibly a second movement infusion instead. Rune of the rift if I hadn't with the forth, perhaps.

Movement infusions are almost a definite if you're not undead, though, at least one. They combine with celerity and haste (just make sure to cast haste before popping the rune) in an incredible way. Two is usually overkill, but at the same time double movement infusion gives you supreme control over positioning, especially when stacked with the various mobility talents TWs have. Just one is probably enough, though.

[Robsoie]

Lost a life because i forgot to check what was powering the very nice piece of item i just equipped.

So unless you're going to the anti-magic zigur branch, check if any of your worn item is powered by "arcane-disrupting force".
Whatever great the item appears to be , it is in fact a sure way to get killed when your life-saving powers/runes/talent will suddenly refuse to activate when you really need them in battle

[Waterplouf]

Hi,
I just downloaded the game and I was messing around with the graphic mode and now I don't know how to switch back to the initial graphical tiles ? ( I kind of feel a little bit derp  )