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[RedKing]

If you've unlocked Necromancer, here's another method:

Pump up Invoke Darkness first on the class side and Phase Door on the generic side, and then go for the undead minions talent after that on the class side. When you've cleared out both the ritch pit and Murgol's lair (not too hard, Invoke Darkness is really strong early on), go to the tunnel and slowly walk to the left. The moment you see the Wayist, Phase Door him away to the very end of the room near the entrance as Robsoie has suggested, then summon your minions in front of you to be meatshields and do some damage, before blasting Subject Z with Invoke Darkness (once you've maxed it, it doesn't hurt your minions). Should be an easy unlock, I did it on my first try.

Yeah, haven't gotten anywhere close to unlocking Necromancer yet. The point about being able to get to the Arena is a good one. Usually sitting at lvl 8 by the time I'm done with both Yeek starter dungeons.


Having a pretty good run for the moment with a dwarf brawler. Does mean that I need to spread my stats out like crazy, but it should make him a tough nut to crack in time. Also means I have very few options on the generic side, so Antimagic actually seems like a good investment.

[ChairmanPoo]

My "standard unlocking build" are alchemists.

[RedKing]

My "standard unlocking build" are alchemists.

Hmm....I don't know that I've ever even tried a Yeek Alchemist. Suppose it couldn't hurt. I tend to make my alchemists all about the golems and ditch bombs and gemworking for the most part.

[Frumple]

Ehn... alchies don't make a very good mindslayer unlocker, unfortunately. Maybe if you luck out with an acid bomb it'd give you enough time to get to the wayist and keep it from being popped but... it's not likely. Better chance if you come back later, but it's still iffy. Z can splat the wayist in literally a single turn from full health -- and doesn't even need to start the turn besides the wayist to do it. So you need a bit more mobility/CC/range than alchies tend to have when first going at Z, and even if you come back later there's a turn or two period that it's entirely possible the wayist goes splat in.

Someone with controllable phase door really is about your best chance, overall. Though I sorta' unlocked slayers originally with a 'zerker of all things, so... whatever. Keep trying 'till the RNG smiles upon you and Z decides to let the wayist live.

[Un67]

Well, the thing about recalling out is that:

A) I don't think that it's intended behavior

and

B) The maximum level for the arena quest was raised in 1.0, to 13 I think.

[beorn080]

My "standard unlocking build" are alchemists.

Hmm....I don't know that I've ever even tried a Yeek Alchemist. Suppose it couldn't hurt. I tend to make my alchemists all about the golems and ditch bombs and gemworking for the most part.

Golems fall off pretty quickly, seeing as they only have 2 hands, a body, and 2 gem slots, minimal stat gains per level, and almost no skills. There are tricks to making them more potent, such as scumming escorts for certain ones, not sure which would be best, then giving the reward to the golem. Something that heals them would be useful, I think. But, yeah. A golem later on isn't much more useful then a meatshield to hide behind.

Currently I'm running a Cornac Alchemist focusing on the Heat and Bombs trees. Surprisingly, Heat + Smoke Bomb is fairly amazing. Hit the heaviest one with heat, then drop a smoke bomb on the group to hit EVERYTHING with a 400-500 damage debuff. And, if you don't need smoke bomb, you can save it for a very useful LoS remover.

Also, I got the best stick+wand combo ever. Staff gives +3 ward talent level, and the wand gives +1. The wand has a bunch of useful assorted ward elements, and the staff just one. But, changing the element on the staff changes the element it gives wards for. So, hello 5+ cold wards for Daikara, or whatever I need. Go in, analyze a target's talents, gem portal out if I must, then just set my staff up to absorb it all. That + Rune of Reflection makes me nigh immortal.

Edit: And so ends Kih the Cornac alchemist. Opened a vault door in Dreadfall. 3 Major demons, no corners to duck around, no way to gem portal out of LoS. Pop rune of reflection, throw an acid bomb at them to try to blind them. Next turn, get teleported PAST them onto a lava floor, golem is dead, I'm at 80 life. Next turn, dead. Was last life, but oh look, Blood of life doesn't give you an extra life. Use that, appear in same spot, drop dead instantly.

Edit2: I just got a cloak. Fairly weak. Except, it has telepathy-Humanoid/orc. Is this any good?

[DeKaFu]

Well. I just tried a Higher Alchemist run with the idea of working towards the extra fire/ice magic tree unlocks.

Keeping in mind that the furthest I'd ever gotten previous to this run was just barely past Dreadfell...I died in the east at level 42 after beating

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The spider place, underwater place, sand dragon place, breeding pit, crypt place, Vor armory and pride, after also having been back west and defeated the backup guardians and Tannen.

I singlehandedly unlocked both trees as well as Ghouls and four new classes (though still no Necromancer, darn it). Tried a character dump after I died (I'm offline) but I think I messed up and lost it.

So apparently Alchemists are really good? Once their bombs are built up you can basically clear the entire room every 3 turns. Not sure I'll try one again though, since that's pretty much the only interesting thing they can do.    Between being a one (or two) trick pony and the hassle of extra inventory management (keeping the chest from transmogrifying things you want to extract, worrying about equipment for both yourself and golem) they're just not that much fun to play.

Also, since this is my first time ever making it to the east:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The orc breeding pit was just conceptually one of the most actively unpleasent things I've encountered in a game in a long time. Seriously, what the hell D:

[Graven]

Yeah I've been personally bitching about that place for ages, it's just ... horrible. It's even more horrible because even though people, especially on the official forums are all "Mneh mneh you can totally go without cleaning the place, it's just your self-important desire not to bother with trivialities that make you do it!", the truth is orc patrols can murder almost every single character at one point or another, unless he's incredibly overpowered. I've gotten, several times, rare corruptors and their broods instagibbing what few characters I can get to the east in the first two turns of my inevitable stumbling into an orc patrol.

I really wish there were an alternative solution with the same outcome as cleaning that place. Yeah I want a pink and fluffy solution in my hurrr grimdark roguelike, bite me.

Also yeah, alchemists are supposedly one of the best casters out there, but I hate pet classes and can't be bothered to micro the golem, which would be much more optimal.

On the subject of casters, I tried an archmage, got him to about level 12 pooling my points and then just stood there staring at the fifty different trees.

Then I went and died 4 times in the ruins under Lake Nur at 15, because teleporting away from the luminous horrors works only when there's at least a single room without 3 of them in it. How on earth am I supposed to build an archmage and not constantly skirt the edge of death while still being unable to quickly kill a single rare? I went fire/wildfire/aegis and it did not work out well. I could kill groups really fast, but single enemies were meh.

[Frumple]

Go skeleton for beefiness, pick up impending doom for single targets. Probably other stuff you can do, too, but if you're looking for a single-enemy fuck-you-too-sir, there's not much in the game better than impending doom. That talent is a goddamn menace.

I mean, they've got other stuff they can do (and once you get things rolling, especially with fire, everything just melts because you've probably got 100% respen and so much +fire damage faerosi cringe in horror), but I just spent like four or five hundred turns playing smack and away with a bastard with impending doom.

I also just realized ID's a goddamn necromancer talent, not archmage. Right. Yeah, conceptually they're more about the AoE layering, so, like, do that. Drop inferno and freezing vapors and whatever BS the arcane trees are crapping all over stuff with nowadays and then teleport away and let crap melt. Can't teleport, pop bone armour and laugh 'cause you just shat out a 1.5k hp shield at like level twenty or some crap or throw up stone wall and go nyah nyah nyah. Hit the frakkers with mud slide or tidal wave or whatev' and then PD yourself (or movement infusion -- if you're not undead, you can use those) to the edge of their range and let them wade through your fields of death all over again. Or PD them to the other end, either way. Basically, archmagi have a crapload of options -- specialization isn't necessarily a bad thing, but even a specialist mage wants all that tasty-as-hell utility. Get it, use it, yeah.

Regarding the orc patrols... it might be worth throwing an idea post up on the forums suggesting rares get squelched in those. They were quite doable for however many betas there were before the breeding pits were implemented, but I do imagine the inclusion of rares has been a nasty stealth buff. Or play with the opt-in advn parties addon, which I think covers orc patrols, too. Well, or code up an addon with an alternative

In other news, I've been reminded that yeek berserkers kinda' rock the house. I'd forgotten about that, and have noticed a neat synergy where the global boost mostly makes up for the penalty from precise strikes, which means I can go str/dex/con and still have fairly ludicrous crit rate (59% at level 24, whee). Anyway, yeah, enjoying this so far. Fair bit flimsier than your normal 'zerker, of course, but that still means I've got like 700 HP and a hefty chunk of HP regen.

[Dr Feelgood]

@Graven

You can outrun orc patrols on the world map with boots of speed or anything that boosts movement speed. You can also use a movement infusion and flee if you bump into them. They're not too difficult if you're playing a caster though.

It doesn't really matter what spells you pick as an archmage, since they're grossly overpowered. My easiest win on roguelike was with an earth/water specialist.

Basic strategy: 1. Pile on damage-over-time effects. 2. Leave the area. 3. Wait for everything to die. The AI is pretty dumb and it'll (usually) stay put in the damage zone.

[DarrenGrey]

Hey DarrenGrey, if you're still reading this thread, you said you were the main lore guy, right?

Why the hell is everything so depressing in the main module I love the gameplay, but every bit of lore, especially later on, depresses the hell out of me. Like, I don't want to

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

genocide orks

, but I also don't want to waste two hours to patrols, why can't there be a "I'm a big babby pls" solution?

Also I just remembered : Can I become Antimagic and just kill the stupid zigguranth so they, too, stop depressing me?

Just popped in on the thread and saw this...  Sorry you find the lore depressing!  Well... not really sorry actually.  I'm glad people actually have some emotional reaction rather than just slogging through the zone you mentions with a hardened heart.  Be glad you are depressed, it means you have a soul 

As for anti-magic, there is one group that can help you out there, but they're just as mad  :-/

[Graven]

Blah, 5:30 am is not a good time to try and discuss serious issues in games. Thanks for the character advice, and thanks for taking the time to post, Darren!

edit : I've also taken to helping the Grand Corruptor destroy Zigur and then gently nudging him into the water so he can drown. Screw the lot of you, the god damn Grand Keeper of Reality is a mage, and you're fighting against all magic?

[DeKaFu]

More thoughts on that orc place...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The breeding pits. I'd been working up some sympathy towards the orcs until I got there. By the time I was a couple floors down and read a couple logs I had zero damn qualms about causing the end of their race. Killing all the mothers is just doing them a favor. They just rocketed past the moral event horizon on this one.

I'm normally pretty thick skinned but for some reason this just struck a nerve and ended up really bothering me. I felt queasy just seeing it on the map afterwards. I think I'm actually going to have to put this game down for a while now...

[Robsoie]

Another "bullshit death", this time for my cursed dwarf lv45 in the optional Shadow Crypt on the East.
Boss fight started and that boss fell rather quickly without any real problem for my character, the bloom really did a number on him.

Only my evil clone was left, but it wasn't going to be harder as after a few rounds i was nearly at full health with a good management of my abilities and the clone was down to "unknown" (blurry immortality i guess, though it's odd that my clone had it as i don't have this).
Then it was just going to take 2 or 3 turns to finish him.

But i couldn't, because each offensive ability or direct attacks i was then doing on the clone ended with a new .lua window appearing and the attack/ability not having actually happened (the ability icon not being in cooldown by example).
After trying every kind of attacks and as a result only more .lua errors and nothing much going on, i understood that this battle was simply broken at that point by those errors, so i clicked on the rod of recall to get out to avoid wasting my time in getting more lua errors.

And it was in fact just opening the pandora box of lua error.
Following that, several dozen of lua error windows one appearing on top of each other.

Fortunately there was a button "close all" , and i clicked.
But apparently the game decided that closing each window took me a turn , because it resulted in my character being killed.

Good i have still a few lives left, but still very annoying when those "bullshit deaths" happen.

[RedKing]

*Sigh* So Ohric the dwarf brawler was sailing along...cleared all starters and all second-tier dungeons, halfling ruins, golem graveyard, tunnels and ruined dungeon without a single death. Booyah. Then I go to hit Tempest Peak just for the XP. Had been saving up on lightning resist gear, and was able to field about 40%.

Died THREE fucking times. Why? Urkis in the starting room with a full-blown lvl 33 storm wyrm as a roommate, for starters. Then stumbled across a bitchload of storm giants including Burf the unique legendary storm giant chieftain *and* the Fragmented Essence of Harkor'zun.

Soooo many elites and randbosses 

Then in Dreadfell, I open a vault and there's a lvl 51 daelach (something like a balrog), which proceeds to kick my ass all over the place. Even with prodigious heals, regen and a 800%+ movement infusion to scoot away and heal, it wasn't working. Wound up running for the stairs and just continuing up. Got murdalized by something else a few floors up, finally cut my losses and resurrected back outside. Kinda running out of areas to grind. And I'll still have to get by that daelach when I go back in. 

Maybe I should try the Temporal Rift. My one previous attempt was instadeath, but my brawler dude is lvl 25.