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[etgfrog]

actualy...rouges are VERY powerful...at least the one i have...maybe its because i managed to grab an early artifact dagger...but i'm 1 shotting most things and bosses usualy die before stun wears off...level 11 and doing 150 damage with a single skill(strait up fight, no backstab, sneak attack or any other special modifiers), add on stealth skills...the problem usualy lies in getting your hands on a good pair of daggers...

[Frumple]

Any of the rogue metaclass members are horrifying damage machines once they get off the ground, but they're pretty fragile and hard to get off the ground. Also tend to have surprisingly meh escape options. Nothing like 'zerkers that just faceroll pretty much the whole game, as a comparison. Rogue metaclass survivability does skyrocket if they can survive to get a decent steel or d-steel level set of daggers, though, and find a decent way of not dying.

A high level shadowblade is particularly hilarious -- EoS + momentum is just great.

[Graven]

Since it popped in the discussion, when is beta 39 getting released and is there a change log for it? I love how beta 38 is faster and the UI is pretty good, but the balance changes are meh and I haven't really played it. Mainly because everything after the Master is so terrifyingly boring to me. I'm still interested in the game as a whole, though, I love the mechanics of the combat system.

[Frumple]

Here's the git short log. List of changes already made to the code (and easy-ish perusal of said code). Big things I've noticed is the fungus and torment trees, mindstars (sorta' like one-handed staves, but for mindpower), and a pretty major weapon ego rewrite. There's other stuff too, though.

As for the when, m'not sure. DG got hit pretty hard by a real life issue not long after b38 got released, and it's slowed things up a bit. He also might be waiting for the fellow working on weapon ego changes to do a bit more work, I'unno. Could be something else, too, I've been a little distant from things since my computer capable of playing t4 died.

[Neonivek]

The game is fun

Oddly enough the parts that annoy me is when its terrible roguelike elements kick in. (enemies that will kill you UNLESS you knew they existed ahead of time, or HUUUGE difficulty spikes because of a mechanic that just kicked in that will get you killed unless you knew about it in advanced and planned accordingly).

I am sad that the only character I play well is the summoner so far. Though as I found out only maxed out summons are any good at actually doing their job (and not all summons are good) and otherwise you use unmaxed ones as fodder.

[freeformschooler]

I wish I understood how to play Yeeks right. I always die within the first few levels when I'm playing as them but tend to do much better as other races/classes.

[Seriyu]

The game is fun

Oddly enough the parts that annoy me is when its terrible roguelike elements kick in. (enemies that will kill you UNLESS you knew they existed ahead of time, or HUUUGE difficulty spikes because of a mechanic that just kicked in that will get you killed unless you knew about it in advanced and planned accordingly).

I am sad that the only character I play well is the summoner so far. Though as I found out only maxed out summons are any good at actually doing their job (and not all summons are good) and otherwise you use unmaxed ones as fodder.

When I was playing, I never actually had that problem, there seemed to be way way less "you walk around a corner and die" deaths, which was a big part of the appeal for me. I was playing on Normal mode + Adventure (as opposed to roguelike, I forget the name of it, you get lives as you level up) though, so maybe that has something to do with it.

[Frumple]

I wish I understood how to play Yeeks right. I always die within the first few levels when I'm playing as them but tend to do much better as other races/classes.

Playing yeeks is mostly just a matter of playing something incredibly squishy. If you're aiming for an easier start, you pick a class particularly able to compensate for that (I.e. Archmage, alchemist, berserker, etc., so forth, so on.), either with massive firepower or some way to damage soak decently. The first two dungeons for yeeks take a bit of luck, though, sometimes. You usually want to start with the ritches and just carefully kite around killing stuff until you gain your first couple of levels and hopefully pick up some better kit. Then you either roll the dice on trying to take the queen, or you hop over to the lair to get another level or two off of non-boss mobs. Of course, that's assuming something like having two ritch pits generate in the tunnels doesn't happen.

If you get through those two dungeons, you probably want to abuse the rod of recall (or possibly a teleport rune or something) and skip project Z (protip: Z can and probably will wreck your shit). After that, you're on the main map and things become muuuuch easier, especially as you'll shortly be rolling in character levels. HP is still an issue after that, but you have a lot more tricks to deal with it (and that sexy 15% global speed boost).

Basically, yeeks just have an absolute bitch of a starting area. If you can get past that, you're golden. For a while, at least.

[freeformschooler]

Thanks, Frumple! Very useful.

[Felius]

The game is fun

Oddly enough the parts that annoy me is when its terrible roguelike elements kick in. (enemies that will kill you UNLESS you knew they existed ahead of time, or HUUUGE difficulty spikes because of a mechanic that just kicked in that will get you killed unless you knew about it in advanced and planned accordingly).

I am sad that the only character I play well is the summoner so far. Though as I found out only maxed out summons are any good at actually doing their job (and not all summons are good) and otherwise you use unmaxed ones as fodder.

When I was playing, I never actually had that problem, there seemed to be way way less "you walk around a corner and die" deaths, which was a big part of the appeal for me. I was playing on Normal mode + Adventure (as opposed to roguelike, I forget the name of it, you get lives as you level up) though, so maybe that has something to do with it.

I personally only encounter this kind of thing with ranged attackers or ranged spellcasters. No matter what my defense is, no matter what my saves are, a small group of them seem to be able to take 100-200 hp per turn before I can even get close to them.

[Frumple]

Rush and/or movement infusions is your best of best friends, most of the time.

Some classes have some ranged disable options that can help out, too, or ways to lure the buggers around corners and suchlike.

Basically, if you're contemplating just walking toward them while taking fire, you might want to take a moment to reconsider your situation and how you should be reacting to it

[ChairmanPoo]

Re: alchies: easiest class by far. Max magic and constitution,  max all bomb skills except shockwave, go for supercharge golem and runic (5 and 4 points, resp), and then try to max out fire and acid infusions, and you're set.

[etgfrog]

i'm having a blast playing summoner now...i'm actualy pretty far in the game with this charecter...just hope i dont somehow screw up and die somehow...but i do have 100% freeze/stun and 80% confusion immunity..so that takes care of the more...difficult status effects...

[Neonivek]

The game is fun

Oddly enough the parts that annoy me is when its terrible roguelike elements kick in. (enemies that will kill you UNLESS you knew they existed ahead of time, or HUUUGE difficulty spikes because of a mechanic that just kicked in that will get you killed unless you knew about it in advanced and planned accordingly).

I am sad that the only character I play well is the summoner so far. Though as I found out only maxed out summons are any good at actually doing their job (and not all summons are good) and otherwise you use unmaxed ones as fodder.

When I was playing, I never actually had that problem, there seemed to be way way less "you walk around a corner and die" deaths, which was a big part of the appeal for me. I was playing on Normal mode + Adventure (as opposed to roguelike, I forget the name of it, you get lives as you level up) though, so maybe that has something to do with it.

I personally only encounter this kind of thing with ranged attackers or ranged spellcasters. No matter what my defense is, no matter what my saves are, a small group of them seem to be able to take 100-200 hp per turn before I can even get close to them.

Its because this game really damage/difficulty spikes you.

The very first ranged units you find in the game mean buisness and are high-damage elemental based attacks.

I know I often never have a single problem in the game until the super powered ranged units start showing up.

Funny thing is that it isn't even the worst encounter you will find in the game in terms of HUGE difficulty spikes. The worst depends on your character but depending on who you are they can just outright kill you.

Also yes Tome 4 does have a LOT less unfair stupid deaths then the regular roguelike. It still does have a few (my greatest archer experienced one)

[Frumple]

Ahahahaha, okay, so b39's out like, today?

One of the fun new features! Random classed elite monsters! No, not randbosses, just... y'know, regular elite monsters. With classes.

My first encounter with one is on Mire 2. It was a dire wolf archer. It murdered the alchemist I was escorting, and then me. I laughed uproariously, and then quit

Still, absolutely hilarious, and was completely not expecting it.

Went back to kinspike the bastard and check something. Best part! There's no visual cue you've just ran into something classed, as per the little purple box around random bosses. Kick to the ass! Ahahaha!

E: Temporal warden classed wolf on same level! I'm crawling in classed asskickers I can't identify at a glance! Whee! It's like playing Portralis, ahahahaha!