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Author Topic: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal  (Read 491987 times)

Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1470 on: January 07, 2014, 03:45:20 pm »

If I were theorizing on a minionless necro... and I am... I'd say they end up more physically resilient than archmages, without the Aegis tree to lean on. You don't have standard minions, so ghouls are unnecessary. Taking 5-point lich form as soon as possible (24, I think) gives you a bunch of status immunities, and the Animus tree gives you non-summonable disposable minions - you blast and mind control those wandering elites to tank for you. They can't be healed, but... you get solipsist/bulwark tanks... or even a necromancer controlling a necromancer controlling minions. I'd guess with all the darkness buffs Forgery of Haze is a good damage boost if you can stay out of its way. You also get Impending Doom, which does arcane damage to help with high shadow resists. It seems good on paper, at least.

Re: Plate Rogues... I think early game low investment stealth in ToME is supposed to be more of an escape mechanism than an offensive tool. The reports I've read imply it only gets good if you can survive the early dungeons with stuns and knife fighting. If you wanted plate... I'd almost consider the "I can carry the world" prodigy for zero fatigue, but taking it early costs you mighty leap, or taking it late means you got to 42 without it so what's the point. I admit rogues and Doomed are by far my least played metaclasses, though.

Also... I really should unlock Oozemancers to see what all the fuss is about and get a free win.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1471 on: January 07, 2014, 04:17:53 pm »

For the Oozemancer class, just remember when you met one at high level and despite you had a good character going you simply couldn't manage to kill him while your health was going down very quickly.

Well, playing an Oozemancer is all about inflicting this pain and frustration you felt at that time, but on the enemy AI. A good way to get your revenge for all the overpowered enemies the game had generated to kill you ;)
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Graven

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1472 on: January 07, 2014, 05:10:09 pm »

Well about Oozemancer... let's put it this way.

I'm currently on floor 8 of Dreadfell, level 31 since I did everything except the Elven Crypts, jumped into the Dark Crypt as soon as I could, running around the rooms and slapping my bum as 5+ mages chased me around, opened every single vault in Dreadfell [and there were a decent lot of them], fought the Halfling and Dwarf uniques in Dreadfell together...

And I have 16 skill, 13 generic and 1 cat point, all unspent.

Yeah. Unlike the first time I played an Oozemancer, though, I'm not exactly having the time of my life. I like feeling powerful, but I also like a bit of challenge now and again.
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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1473 on: January 07, 2014, 05:24:00 pm »

Try a Yeek Berserker if you really want a challenge without the need to play on higher difficulty or on roguelike ;) My only attempt at it got really, really bad very quickly.

The last orc pride just fell, going to run into the slime tunnel tomorrow, looks like Oozemancers are still very very powerfull even in nightmare difficulty.
No wonder high level enemies oozemancers are the bane of any adventurers.

Anyways, on the last pride i ran into a naga invasion, i used my movement skill to run into their portal and after killing the nagas on their territories, a "normal" turtle decided to pick a fight with me.
"normal" , just check the resistance.


Good thing that my oozemancer have high acid and nature penetration.
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GP Trixie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1474 on: January 08, 2014, 08:15:09 am »

I can confirm that minionless necro is very viable as it's my only win so far. I don't know if it's more porwerful. You just spam darkness damage, then some darkness damage and even more darkness damage. It works even better than the pure fire wildfire archmage IMO. With lich form you already have 2 very powerful darkness beam.

It's been a while since I played tome 4 so I don't remember the name of all the spells but the substain that make you absorb darkness and pierce resistance make everything works. Your clone heal you with his darkness AOE spells. And you don't want to take the ice AOE spell because of your clone. He WILL use it at you at the worst moment possible.

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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1475 on: January 08, 2014, 10:12:53 am »

My Dwarf Oozemancer just won the Nightmare difficulty.

Of course, being an Oozemancer, he was already very strong before entering High Peaks, but very powerfull he became before entering in the Sanctum thanks to some rather amazing random items (that were on a merchant superitem level of awesome) looted from the many High Peaks bosses that increased his willpower to some insane 180 and cunning to 120 !

Giving him a mindpower of 102 for dealing amazing damage and having his Silence working greatly.

The Sanctum battle was even easier than with my Normal difficulty Oozemancer win with this huge Mindpower, despite the 2 bosses were overcheating with their levels and insanely higher health than in Normal ( they were both more than level 100 ! )
The Sun Paladin wasn't much better than her Normal difficulty version, it's a miracle she survived (though she can say thanks to my healing touch).

But it didn't mattered, with such a mindpower >100 and being an Overpowermancer :D , my character teared them apart with insane damage on very high penetration.

The most difficult battle he had, out of the Worm that Walks unique that i mentioned previously and managed to beat at level 30 in my fortress was the Slime Tunnel boss that appears for the undead pillar "Neverdead Something".

That thing was nearly unkillable (and to make things worse he even resurrected), took forever to kill him and i managed only because i had healing and regen from everywhere (thanks to Fungus tree, i would hate to see what a normal class without Fungus would do there).

The major difficulty is that he often casted some darkness obscuring the whole scene, and even if i was immune to blindness, i had nothing in stock (no vision/sun rune because i had to use better runes and i had no skill to track him as i never though i would really need one at that point of the game, something i'll reconsider for other characters) to see him as he liked to phase door a lot in that darkness too so i could never figure out where he exactly was to shoot him.

Meanwhile he was regenerating/stealing my health to 100% quickly when left unchecked.

And as all good superundead as he is, he was summoning legions after legions of undead to confuse me even more on where he could be (difficult to navigate even with Movement when the screen is filled with undead everywhere in that darkness, looks like he was insanely cheating as i killed maybe more than a hundred of his undeads, while even with highest level of animus yourself can only have up to 19 souls in stock, and he never used the Curse of the Meek spell to refill.

To make things worse, i casted maybe a dozen of time Silence but every single time he resisted the effect, i wasn't near the insane Mindpower i had after looting High Peak, but still it was endgame-ready, can't believe he could resist so much time.
And despite my Spell Feedback prodigy it does not look like it disturbed him much

Finally at some point, using my movement rune a lot to get in melee distance from him, it was easier to relocate him into the darkness, and after a long , so very long battle and despite his resurrection i finally managed to put him down without dying (though several close calls during that battle due to the focus fire of his many undead and himself).

Anyways, that's done, unlocked the insane difficulty that i will never play.

But i really wonder how some of the battles can play without the Fungus tree, even as a Oozemancer and despite the bloated ooze sharing my damage , there were -many- time my health was dropping fast, i can't imagine how it would have been possible to not die with a character less strong than an Oozemancer or without as much heal/regen as Fungus allow you to have.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I didn't thought Oozemancer were still that strong enough to take on Nightmare that "easily" (out of a few hard fights) , i wonder if they're still good enough for Insane, but i will not try, masochism has its limits :D
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 10:17:16 am by Robsoie »
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1476 on: January 08, 2014, 10:35:42 am »

Meanwhile I rolled and lost 8 or so characters last night. Highlights include: The farportal guardian was a level 30 dreaming horror. I opened the door at 22. Then I died 3 times to a non-elite in dreadfell. Next up... archmage dies repeatedly because the game spawned a level 25 corruptor ... In the Rhaloren camp (a level 5 zone). Temporal warden tries to rescue the randart merchant, spends the entire fight blinded, stunned, and surrounded. 2 rogues, and 2 shadowblades dead before level 10, no marauder unlocks here. <sarcasm> It's almost like the first two hopelessly worthless deaths made me stop paying attention. </sarcasm>
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1477 on: January 08, 2014, 02:08:33 pm »

@ Rob's undead summoning beyond soul limit thing: Several of the higher tier undead critters (Definitely the top vampire, ferex) have just a straight up summon talent -- not the necromancer's undead minion talent. It's a costless summon talent that summons more undead and has no limits beyond the cooldown. Also the summoned critters are full on critters. They don't have a duration, or can't be healed, or anything like that. It's pretty much explicitly spawning more critters on the map.

I still remember one high peak run a while back that I ended up with a level with over a dozen vampire lords on it, all aggro'd. It took... several hours to clear out. Killed either one or two dozen eternal bone giants. Several hundred miscellaneous undead. Dozens of Gs, who knows how many of them dreadmasters. It got a little silly. Especially since the top tier vamps, at least, can summon the next tier down (hell, possibly just more of themselves), which can also summon. I forget what the old *band term for that is, heh, but the whole summoners-summoning-summoners thing is always great for a tremendous cluster of a level.
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Graven

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1478 on: January 08, 2014, 04:15:02 pm »

Great job, Rob! That's a pretty sweet Oozemancer you got there.

I, on the other hand, went and died twice on my own Oozemancer in Reknor  :'( I decided that despite lacking any meaningful stun and confusion resistances, I might as well stand in the middle of a great big Orc band, twice in a row, with two separate orc bands. Woe is me.
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What a strange and beautiful world I beheld, but dangerous too, I was certain. And I was friendless and homeless. And so I prayed.
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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1479 on: January 08, 2014, 04:34:16 pm »

@Frumple
Hmm, that explains then why the thing could summon hundred of undeads without even trying the Curse of the Meek to refill a bit.
I wonder if the Master in Dreadfell is the same, as in my battle he did use Curse of the Meek a few times, and my oozes killing his cursed rabbits then refilled his soul stock.

@Graven
Thanks, the danger with Oozemancers is that due to them being very powerfull, it's easy to forget that the game can still generate really strong enemies.
During the high peak ascension, i got a hard battle with one generated boss, a champion or Urh'Rok that was additionally an Oozemancer (i think on the whole game, enemies Oozemancers are the strongest enemies right next to Dreaming horrors), took a lot of time to manage to put him down


Oozemancers really need to summon their bloated oozes as soon as possible when a battle start, due to them taking half the damage you're taking yourself, giving then you a big resilience, that is helped with the Fungus tree they have.
Even more than the mucus ooze that sometime spawn in the acid shower you can throw, bloated oozes are your best weapons , not only due to the damage reduction on yourself, but when they spawn and rush an enemy, they hit him really hard.

I think next time i'll try to play in Easy difficulty to see the change , allowing me to then test much weaker unusual race/class combo than i always abandonned after dying multiple times before level 10, as i got probably all the achievements i could gather, it's not mattering much that Easy does not give any.

Now about the Nightmare difficulty, i noticed during the whole run that i found more good items than usual, i wonder if it's linked then to the higher level enemies you get during all the game , would be something great as at least you have a reward for trying to get over the higher difficulty.

In that case, loots from Insane difficulty could then be awesome, and that Madness one (that i will not even bother to unlock as i would need to complete insane, something i'm not masochist enough to try) should put the merchant superitems to shame .

« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 04:41:05 pm by Robsoie »
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1480 on: January 08, 2014, 06:30:24 pm »

The master actually doesn't have the summon talent (Anymore. I think he did pre-necromancer class, iirc, and he still has the code for defining what would pop out, interestingly enough.). What he does have is a one-per-turn passive soul regeneration. You can check stuff like that in the specific zone npcs.lua files. Pretty much anything zone specific (bosses, particular uniques) is defined in the zone files, including zone-specific monsters and artifacts.

Pale Drake does, though, apparently. Can summon pairs of bone giants.

E: And yeah, higher level enemies == higher level drops. Nightmare (and possibly Insane. Dunno about madness.) does, indeed, generally entail better kit, from what I recall. I think I've actually heard some folks opine it's easier than normal (in some ways) because of it.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 06:34:53 pm by Frumple »
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Robsoie

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1481 on: January 08, 2014, 08:19:56 pm »

Looks like ToME4 1.1.4 just got released :
http://te4.org/blogs/darkgod/2014/01/news/tales-majeyal-114-aka-balance-power-released

Code: [Select]
Release highlights:

    * Many important fixes
    * Tons of new artifacts

 
Expanded changelist:

    * Altered the orc breeding pits encounter to make it a little less unconfortable and more obvious into what you're getting into
    * If the stone wardens addon can not be enabled due to failed login, savefile loading will abord instead of damaging it.
    * Buffed the rune of reflection to match the description
    * Fixed Bloodspring log message
    * Fixed Lichform doesnt preventing removing points from necrosis talents
    * Fixed weird graphical bugs on windows
    * Fixed insidious poison infusion description
    * Fix push kick
    * Name highlighting in chat works even for people with weird names
    * Store dialog should fit better on small screens
    * Melinda wont re-die randomly on the beach
    * Improved Flameshock description
    * Added BSD support
    * Vor always gets his manasurge rune
    * Fixed usable artifact gems
    * When the server receives a donation, notify & thank the player that did it
    * Tons of new artifacts to find & enjoy!
    * Madness mode now features an HP multiplier on NPCs, scaling with level and rank.
    * Insane and Madness difficulties now give random classes to fixed bosses
    * In Madness difficulty the Hunted! debuff lasts much longer
    * Added image for the No Way! achievement
    * Unified speed displays in the character sheet
    * Game will not warn you if you try to load an already tainted savefile in developer mode
    * Speedup server connection on boot by ignoring empty commands
    * Speedup hash validation

Oh man, tons of new artifacts, just when i wanted to take a break to focus on my UnrealWorld character :D
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Darkmere

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1482 on: January 08, 2014, 10:17:45 pm »

Fixed artifact gems? Awesome. I stuffed a burning star into my vault just because I love them and couldn't use the damn thing. This patch tastes like victory.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Bitoru

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1483 on: January 08, 2014, 10:58:12 pm »

Artifacts! Finally!

Perhaps now not every single character will find that damn Tooth.
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Frumple

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Re: Tome 4: Tales of Maj'Eyal
« Reply #1484 on: January 08, 2014, 11:02:32 pm »

... even more, huh? I'm never going to find that ruddy femur, am I? Especially not on a character that can actually make good use of it.

Makes me sad. One of the (possibly the) best one-hand weapons in the game, that thing...
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