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[Darkmere]

I've had good wins on a sun paladin, bulwark, and multiple wyrmics. Of those, the last two need antimagic. Bulwarks are probably the most tactical and survival depends on how fast you get movement abilities, so it's probably not what you're looking for. Wyrmics need antimagic to thrive, but get huge gains from taking it. I ran with sword n board once, and mindstar mastery once (before it was trainable in zigur), and thought mindstar was more fun, but slightly more difficult.
Sun Paladins are rock solid and you get free access to Celestial/Light for cleanses IIRC, but their damage is fairly low. It didn't matter to me because a mental infusion and Providence are all you need to clear everything off you in a few turns, if you can deal with every fight taking several turns.

[Robsoie]

I think overall the Bulwark is a good melee (though probably not the most powerfull), certainly the Berserker may have more damage output potential, but he dies much more, providing you more source of frustration and ragequit, while a bulwark is really resilient and that's the main point when there are so many things that can kill your melee character in a couple of turns.

And the Bulwark Assault skill with his shield is capable of very high damage too in high level when you have a high end weapon to benefit from the automatic crits hits

But of course like all the melee characters, Rush is a complete must have, and getting a 2nd one through some item is ideal.

I got a couple of wins with Bulwark (dwarf and ghouls) and enjoyed them.

[Graven]

So... apparently in the previous version of Tome I had,  an option was either bugged, or somehow turned off [in which case I'd love to know how to turn it back off].

When I got tired of Assault endlessly asking me if I really want to target myself, I finally clicked yes. Because in the previous version it plain wouldn't do anything, at least with melee abilities.

Not in the newest version! My Arcane Blade boldly stood up against the coming darkness, and smacked himself in the head for about 3 times the total HP I had. Dumbest death I've had in a while.

[Robsoie]

I'm not sure why you would ever want to target yourself on purpose while using Assault.

[Darkmere]

Didn't it used to be a thing where you could activate block and shield bash yourself, thereby blocking your own shield bash with the shield you were bashing with? The mind boggles...

[Robsoie]

Never even tried, there's already so many ways to die in that game

Anyways, just experienced one of those infamous "bullshitdeath"

Running a good Ghoul Corruptor, good because usually i get killed with such combo much earlier.
I got the bandit tunnels and landed on the level in which you can save the merchant.

Nothing special out of a chest that generated a rare that i managed to kill despite its original and oh convenient "silence" :/

Then as i know that the place usually have a hidden alert trap (that generate a few regular enemies when triggered) , i pressed W and waited to see if my character ran on it.
And it did, i see 5 regular bandits appearing, and ... Eidolon is loading.

What the ... ?

And i looked at the log

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Basically the turn they appeared, they were able to do an extra turn before me for some reason , and then as they were 5 it's obvious from the log that some of them even attacked more than once too .

I found this so much stupidly frustrating that i didn't even bothered to come back despite i had several lives left and gave up on the character on eidolon.

I guess it's time to leave ToME4 for a while and get to complete my house and trap system in UnrealWorld.

[Niveras]

That was probably cause by the ghoul's weakness of -25% global speed. Turn-based games deal with such things by making the effect "accumulate" until such time as it accounts for a single turn. You see this in DCSS as well.

It is definitely not the best way to go about it, since it effectively works to be more like "every 4 actions, all enemies take an extra action" but, not being much of a mathematician or game designer, I'm not sure how else you might be able to implement it.

[Graven]

I'm not sure why you would ever want to target yourself on purpose while using Assault.

Because the buttons I press are as follows : "1" - assault -> hover mouse over enemy -> space to cast on target being hovered over. Which works if the game is not lagging, but since it very often lags, it presumes I'm trying to target myself and asks me. Since I was used to pressing yes meaning nothing at all in the previous version, I thought I'd show the game whatfor and pressed yes again. God bless.

Also damn, that's a painful death 

I've just noticed that nearly all my early-game deaths come from a pretty god damn stupid "pooling" behaviour I apparently have. On most classes you can usually get to about level 10-12 depending on race without spending a single skill or stat point, with just the starting points. And while this works out relatively decent sometimes, and a lot of times it means going into the rogue tunnels on an AB without teleport. Or dimension door.

I guess I like the sudden boost in power when I finally do spend? This is even more stupid because in Tome levels are actually quite important. I don't even.

[Robsoie]

for the targetting, i usually use the numeric pad instead of the mouse, i always found it more accurate when something heavy on ressource is going on

That was probably cause by the ghoul's weakness of -25% global speed. Turn-based games deal with such things by making the effect "accumulate" until such time as it accounts for a single turn. You see this in DCSS as well.

It is definitely not the best way to go about it, since it effectively works to be more like "every 4 actions, all enemies take an extra action" but, not being much of a mathematician or game designer, I'm not sure how else you might be able to implement it.

-global- speed ?
I always thought it was just the movement speed that had that malus; ouch that's even more painfull as a character than i thought then.

Hmm, that would explains some of the things i saw and just put on the game simple randomness, i start to wonder then how i ever won with a few of my ghouls if it's not only the movement that's affected but every single actions, those few must had been really extremely lucky runs.

[Frumple]

Yeah, ghoul's penalty is -20% global (unless that was kicked up to -25% when I wasn't looking, which would be pretty harsh*). It's usually not that bad (I find ghouls one of the easiest races to get east, if not win with), but occasionally the RNG will just drag you into a dark alley and do horrifying things to your internal organs.

*E: Ah, checked. Yeah, it's still a base .8 global speed, so still just a 20% penalty. 1 in 5, not 1 in 4.

[Darkmere]

I hate the undead races. The colossal XP penalty for skeletons and crippling global speed on ghouls aren't even as bad as micromanaging the dumbass cloak. That thing's just a racial annoyance penalty for its own sake. Mouse dream is still worse, mind you.

[Graven]

IIRC you can now upgrade the cloak to work from your inventory when you take possession of the Sher'Tul fortress.

Nowadays I just can't exist with an experience penalty, though. Thalore and Skeleton are incredibly powerful races but what's that is that a 40% experience penalty oh I think someone's calling me for business over at Cornacsville.

[Darkmere]

Actually most of the characters I play end up being dwarf or thalore. I don't grind farportals and still feel thalore is on par with anyone else, but it could be a playstyle thing. I tend to avoid classes that work well with Shalore, and I despise this game's "rogue"s so I... well I should branch out more when the rage of WTFINSTAMURDERDEATH fades next time.

I didn't know about the cloak thing, but I'm still far too wary of the absurd racial penalties to really try an undead in earnest. Does the boosted attack rune stats balance out their inability to use infusions? I hadn't played much since those got put in whenever it was.

[Frumple]

Their racials alone mostly cover the lack of infusion (skeleton's are godly (especially for archmage and AB -- dat aegis ;_;), ghoul's are solid and base stats on both are delicious). The improved runes are just cake. Ghoul's the only one with a meaningful penalty, and as I said, I'd still count them as one of the easiest races to hit east with. The life rating in particular makes the early to mid game a lot easier, even with the global penalty, and retch makes you nigh-invincible until pretty far into the game.

As for shalore, they're honestly fine with pretty much any class, but especially ones that work well with crits (built in 10% all crit, yespleasethankyou). Shalore 'zerker is still one of my preferred combos.

[Robsoie]

Ghoul are very good as Necromancer because their Retch ability does not only heal you greatly each turns while damaging enemies, but does the same for all your minions, that's the only race that can heal the minions, and it can do wonders ( i won one recently )