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[idgarad]

Rather then have specific nodes that indicate ore or gems change\add meta-data to the block such that there is a % chance (lookup table) for a 'drop' of ore or gems.

e.g.

Basalt
30% Gem-A
15% Gem-B
8% Gem-C
15% Ore-A
...
100% Basalt Rock


The idea then is that going forward any new gems\ores added show up in the drop table for the ore.

Veins then in part can become a meta-data overlay indicating that certain basalt blocks have a buff to the quantities to the drop so rather when mining a basalt node with a 30% chance of dropping Ore-A, flagged as a vein block it doubles to 60% chance. Then modify up for mining skill.

[Silverionmox]

I completely support this... except for one thing. Seeing gems in the walls as they are uncovered, and afterwards in the rooms is very satisfying. There should be a way to retain that.

[Granite26]

Wait, what?  You mine out a random tile and there's a random chance it drops ore loot from it's random drop table?

[Silverionmox]

"Random" is relative. As the OP said, there will (need to) be zones of varying probabilities, so you have gem-rich and gem-poor areas.

The random chance could be fixed upon embark for each square, so savescumming will do absolutely no good.

Also, this in no way precludes the usage of classic ores: those just are rock types with a 100% chance to drop ore. The common rock types should have a very low chance to drop ore/gems if this applied anyway, IMO.

[NW_Kohaku]

Savescumming could do some good if the actual result of the ore or stone random decision is performed on the strike of the pick.  Of course, who wants to be such a festidious savescummer that they literally reload every time a miner digs every single tile in their entire fortress?  If you make the random rolls become so routine and only matter in aggregate, you can effectively occlude the amount of things any sane person would be able to savescum.

[Silverionmox]

Savescumming could do some good if the actual result of the ore or stone random decision is performed on the strike of the pick.  Of course, who wants to be such a festidious savescummer that they literally reload every time a miner digs every single tile in their entire fortress?  If you make the random rolls become so routine and only matter in aggregate, you can effectively occlude the amount of things any sane person would be able to savescum.

If I wasn't clear, the idea was to roll everything at embark. That saves a tiny bit of FPS during the game as well. (Heroes of might and magic uses that trick too.)

[NW_Kohaku]

I don't know, I think it might help "cure people of their savescumming" a little to make savescumming a little more annoying for the pittance of a reward it gives players.

[Granite26]

Savescumming could do some good if the actual result of the ore or stone random decision is performed on the strike of the pick.  Of course, who wants to be such a festidious savescummer that they literally reload every time a miner digs every single tile in their entire fortress?  If you make the random rolls become so routine and only matter in aggregate, you can effectively occlude the amount of things any sane person would be able to savescum.

If I wasn't clear, the idea was to roll everything at embark. That saves a tiny bit of FPS during the game as well. (Heroes of might and magic uses that trick too.)

Huh?

[NW_Kohaku]

Huh?

He means it's determined at embark, not random up until you actually mine the rock and see what you get.  You would have to reload a save before embark to reroll the mineral allocation.

... Which is actually not very different from how it is in 40d-style embarks, anyway.  They just use the same seed so that you will get the same "random" embark if you have the same embark size, but you wind up with a different set of minerals and stagnant pools if you embark in a different size.

[Granite26]

What I meant was:

1:  That's not how I read it at all.
and
2:  How does that help FPS?  Just that you've got a formula for what a tile is when it's mined(while remembering the layer rock) rather than remembering what it is?  How?

[sockless]

There wouldn't be much of a performance drop if it was done on the fly. Since all you are doing is generating a random number and then advancing the seed.

[Sowelu]

This is silly.  Veins are big.  Your idea would work if the things you're prospecting for are small compared to the size of a tile (I guess like gems).

[irmo]

If I wasn't clear, the idea was to roll everything at embark. That saves a tiny bit of FPS during the game as well. (Heroes of might and magic uses that trick too.)

So really, the only thing you're changing is that the player doesn't get to see the result before digging the tile.

[Neowulf]

Toady mentions a possible rock crusher machine in the dev pages under the mechanics arc, maybe we can also get an ore sifter-type machine or job to harvest small amounts of ore from the crushed rocks. Kinda like melting down metal objects, crushing a bunch of stone down has a chance of granting a fraction of an ore stone and when you reach a full stone worth the building outputs the ore stone.

[Silverionmox]

If I wasn't clear, the idea was to roll everything at embark. That saves a tiny bit of FPS during the game as well. (Heroes of might and magic uses that trick too.)

So really, the only thing you're changing is that the player doesn't get to see the result before digging the tile.

He doesn't in any way; the difference is that reloading won't change the outcome, but it's still possible to work with probabilities rather than fixed ore and gem yields.

And correcting myself, it won't save FPS. Reading it from the semi-random number reservoir shouldn't be very different from reading it from memory.


The main reason I see this as useful is that you can have tiny bits of metal and gems from just digging around. That helps if you really need a metal object for one reason or another, but are in an area without ore veins or deposits, or with limited rocks above the aquifer and you're reluctant to risk your only miner (and pick) in an attempt to breach the aquifer.

Therefore it's best seen as complementary with the current ore veins (which would be just rock with a near 100% probability of yielding ore; the adjacent rock could have 10%, and normal rock 1% for example).