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Author Topic: Intro to Weapons  (Read 1844 times)

Vastin

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Intro to Weapons
« on: February 28, 2011, 11:13:26 am »

A quick dissertation on some of my favorite one-handed weapons, their pros and cons, and how to use them effectively. I generally don't use two-handed weapons, as I consider that an open invitation for some unnoticed archer to put a lucky crossbow bolt through my lung.

The Battle Axe

No dwarf should be without one! More seriously, while a battle axe isn't strongly superior in any one category, it's pretty good in several. It has one of the best slicing penetration depths for a single handed weapon, so if your goal is to leave lots of dismembered hands, arms, legs, and heads in your wake, this is a solid option. It can have a hard time with armor however, so harder materials are important: Steel>Iron>Bronze>Copper

Battle axes work best against human or smaller opponents, where it has an excellent chance of dismembering.

Best opening targets are usually lower arms or legs, as the battle axes' cutting penetration makes a broken bone or lost limb very likely on a good hit. It's particularly fun to target the head when you get the opportunity, as nothing displays your skill like your opponent's head arcing through the air.

If you are having trouble with armor penetration or thick fat layers, consider pommel bashing in a pinch, it can actually be quite effective if you're not getting blade penetration.

The Spear
One of the best one-handed weapons against Giant creatures. Spears combine good armor penetration with excellent wound depth, allowing you to inflict mortal wounds against even the largest of beasts. Excellent anti-dragon/hydra/cyclops weapon.

Hardness is far more important than weight for spears, so again: Steel>Iron>Bronze>Copper

The spear is not quite as good for crippling arms and legs, so your best opening target is generally the Lower Torso with all those vulnerable internal organs - a good hit here will often result in your opponent being gutted, which will cause them disabling pain and nausea from which they cannot recover. Upper Torso strikes are good for causing massive bleeding or lung damage, which will further weaken the beast. Head shots are of course likely to be fatal on a direct hit. Extra style points for nailing a cyclops in the eye.

The Morning star
One of the stronger one-handed bashing weapons. The Morning star is theoretically effective against opponents with non-rigid armor (esp. chain mail). Like most bashing weapons, the morning star is good for breaking bones and bruising organs, but it generally will not dismember or cause much bleeding, so while they are good for disabling opponents, it can be harder to finish them off.

For blunt weapons of this sort, both weight and/or hardness is important so: Steel~Silver>Bronze>Iron>Copper

Against human-sized opponents, a strike against the lower limbs or extremities will often crush bones, disabling them. Upper torso shots can break ribs which may tear the lungs. Lower torso shots tend to be less effective, though a direct hit can result in retching or other organ damage. Only a head shot is likely to kill an opponent quickly.

The Whip
Whips are unusual weapons with an insanely small contact area, and very little penetration depth. This makes them very likely to penetrate armor, but the wounds they cause are often superficial - but painful.

Non-intuitively, this makes whips quite effective against armored opponents, in that they can land several painful and injurious early hits in order to reduce their combat effectiveness. As such, they make quite effective 'opening' weapons, for softening up tougher enemies. Opening shots to the lower torso or lower extremities are often effective to soften up an opponent.

The whip is not that effective against enemies that are highly injury resistant however, such as hydras, or creatures with a lot of fat.

I'm not clear on what the best whip material is, but Iron, Steel or Silver are generally effective.

Actually killing an opponent with a whip can take dozens of rounds - and can generally only be accomplished via a direct head-shot, so it's often better to switch to another deadlier weapon once you've taken some of the fight out of them.

Whips are not particularly effective when fighting a horde of goblins, as you risk being overwhelmed before you manage to finish any of them off. On the plus side, unlike most of the weapons above, whips will never get stuck in your opponent, so a very skilled lasher can disable large number of opponents in a short time during a running fight.

Be extremely wary of enemies wielding whips, as these weapons are the most likely to get a lucky shot through your fancy armor and injure you.
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Vastin

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 08:28:07 pm »

The Pick

I take it all back. The mining pick is a god-like weapon of limb carving destruction.

The first human I tried my steel pick out on is now eligible for full military quadriplegic benefits - or would be if he hadn't bled out two rounds later - but the deal was really sealed when in my next battle I fought a creature of shadow...

Quote
You are no longer in hiding.
You strike the Creature Mate of Shadow in the right lower leg with your <<Steel Pick>> and the severed part sails off in an arc!
The Creature Mate of Shadow falls over.
You strike the Creature Mate of Shadow in the lower torso with your <<Steel Pick>> and the severed part sails off in an arc!
Itha Maciawiri, Creature Mate of Shadow has been struck down.

 :o  I think I'm in love! :D
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lowbart

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 10:47:17 pm »

But which skill does it use in Adventure mode?
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Vastin

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 10:52:15 pm »

Oddly enough - it uses Mining. Really.  :P
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Qinetix

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 11:49:36 pm »

Eh sometime in the future we will be able to mine stuff and craft our stuff....
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Glanzor

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 08:19:55 am »

I think bronze is better than iron. At least this statistic (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53571.0) and my personal experience seem to imply that.
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Duntada Man

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2011, 08:40:51 am »

In my arena tests iron wielding dwarves have a slight edge in survival over bronze wieldiers. With axes and hammers anyway. I haven't tested swords though.


I look forward to being able to make boots out of the alligators that took my last adventurer's legs.
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Terrahex

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 06:37:33 pm »

so what's the pros and cons of swords?

I know that they're good for cutting things off so I usually open with cutting a limb off and they usually seperate a head from the rest of the body on a good, solid hit.
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SirAaronIII

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 07:14:53 pm »

Swords have lots of different attack types. Slashing? Check. Piercing? Check (stabs). Blunt/bludgeoning? Check (pommel/flat of blade).
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Alkhemia

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2011, 08:08:37 pm »

Swords have lots of different attack types. Slashing? Check. Piercing? Check (stabs). Blunt/bludgeoning? Check (pommel/flat of blade).
There pretty much the Mario, The Jack of All Trades ect..
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minno

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2011, 11:38:05 pm »

Swords have lots of different attack types. Slashing? Check. Piercing? Check (stabs). Blunt/bludgeoning? Check (pommel/flat of blade).
There pretty much the Mario, The Jack of All Trades ect..

The have higher contact area when stabbing than a spear does, and I think they have worse slashing attacks than axes.  They definitely have worse crushing attacks than warhammers and whips.  I like swords because they give all of the options, but I suppose that it would be better in the long run to use a spear and an axe instead of a sword.

Note:  slashing attacks are amazing against medium to small unarmored creatures, but can't hurt large/scaled creatures or armored enemies.  Stabbing attacks can sometimes penetrate armor or remove small extremities, and are great against large/scaled creatures.  Bashing weapons are only really good against enemies that feel pain, because you can only kill enemies with headshots or lucky upper body shots driving ribs through vital organs.
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Vastin

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 11:39:16 pm »

Yeah, swords are the generalist's weapon, not quite as good as each of the others in their bailiwick. You can switch weapons pretty fast in combat - it does take time, but generally a good bit less than an attack round, and weapon weight isn't much of an issue for carrying capacity, so you don't really need a generalist weapon to cover all your bases.

HOWEVER - if you start developing your sword skill early on, and stick with it forever, you'll ultimately end up with a much higher effective weapon skill as a trade off for your somewhat inferior generic weapon stats. This is probably a perfectly acceptable strategy.

Spreading out your weapon skills isn't bad either, because Fighting skill is generic to all combat, and is a major component of your hit and defense odds. A legendary Fighter who picks up a brand new weapon will still be quite dangerous with it. I'm really not clear yet on how Fighting vs. Weapon skills compare to each other in detail.

The one thing I wouldn't bother with is training up different weapon skills, and including Swords among them. Not much point to training up swords if you're going to be switching between more specialized weapons anyway.
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Shook

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 10:10:57 am »

Well, i've found my swordsdorf to be quite an effective combatant with a longsword. He chops off limbs at the same rate as my axedorf (penetration equal to a battle axe, but larger contact area), yet he can also stab large enemies (read: marsh titan) in the face for instant kills. I dare say swords are/can be pretty damned effective weapons, though mainly if you get hold of a longsword or a two-handed sword. Short swords aren't terribly effective, given their small size.
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Vastin

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Re: Intro to Weapons
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 10:15:13 am »

Yup. I'd go longsword myself, at least, if I'm playing a human or elf.

With a lot of skill they can be quite effective, and the longsword has the thrusting depth necessary for dealing with giant opponents. The long cutting edge, while it would be terrible against armor or scales, presumably does allow you to de-limb or behead even relatively large targets on a good hit.
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