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Author Topic: Deep, Deep Soil  (Read 9867 times)

mszegedy

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Deep, Deep Soil
« on: February 26, 2011, 08:41:07 pm »

Hello. Mostly-noob here (I've got the hang of everything, but I haven't obsessively memorized everything). After my world was generated, I selected an are with "deep soil", thinking that it would be good for planting (and I was right, I guess). Unfortunately, the are mountain seems to be made entirely out of useless mud. I was able to build a fortress fine, but when it comes to masonry, I appear to have no materials whatsoever. Stone stockpiles don't collect. My fortress doesn't look like it has any stray stone lying around. I can't build floodgates to "drain" my aquifers. I can't drill past level 126, by virtue of having an apparent ocean underground (everywhere I drill underground turns into water, and I can't build pumps to purify the mud). Is the only solution to have some fun? I've invested a whole lot of time in this fortress. Would that mean you can't settle in this type of area, except for personal challenge? That would suck. I've only had fun once before, and that was from abandoning my fortress because I didn't "get" anything. How can I redeem my fortress?
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blue emu

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2011, 08:46:34 pm »

You can build pumps out of wood, and you can pierce an Aquifer by channeling a big underground pit into it, dropping a solid (un-mined) section of the layer above down into the hole, and then digging stairs down in center of the block that you dropped into the hole. Stay away from the sides, where the Aquifer meets the new block of soil.

You can also trade for stone, with the Caravans.
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Never pet a burning dog.

mszegedy

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2011, 08:57:40 pm »

The point is that I need stone, though. I also want to use an aquifer for drinking water, but this "stone" matter is more urgent. There is not an ounce of stone in my area, and I don't see that changing. I would much rather acquire it without trade, too.
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PopeRichardCorey

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2011, 09:19:48 pm »

Everywhere you dig turning to water is the aquifer, if I'm reading you correctly.

I recommend you pierce the aquifer in these stone-less ways; you don't have to destroy the entire aquifer to do so, so your aquifer'll be there when you need water.  It's fairly likely that there's stone beneath that, but it's not guaranteed.

I recommend you also stick with it through this.  It's a good learning experience.  I avoided aquifer piercing and stonelessness my first couple dozen times, and now I'm not very good at it.
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And when you build your fortress walls from the bones of skeletal elephants, slain my weapons forged from melted goblin plunder, fed on cattle that graze on grass that blinks.  Then, you will know dwarfdom.

mszegedy

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2011, 09:25:50 pm »

Thanks. I have only a very small amount of trees, so this is going to be especially tough. I can make good trade farming, though, I guess. Also, where can I get ore? Just trade?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 09:28:46 pm by mszegedy »
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PopeRichardCorey

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2011, 09:35:41 pm »

Thanks. I have only a very small amount of trees, so this is going to be especially tough. I can make good trade farming, though, I guess. Also, where can I get ore? Just trade?

Right now, pretty much just trade. 

Definitely go for Farming for trade.  If you have a fairly good cook in your fort, either migrant or starting 7, you can make a freakin' fortune on prepared meals.  Rock Nuts -> Quarry Bushes + Quern -> Leaves are the key to that.  The cloth industry is strong too, but takes longer to get going.
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And when you build your fortress walls from the bones of skeletal elephants, slain my weapons forged from melted goblin plunder, fed on cattle that graze on grass that blinks.  Then, you will know dwarfdom.

mszegedy

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2011, 09:40:30 pm »

What do I do when the goblins come? When will that be at all?
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PopeRichardCorey

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2011, 09:43:43 pm »

In your current state, you probably die.  Invest some of your precious, precious wood into doors and/or hatch covers so that you can easily lock them out.  If they don't bring any trolls, you'll be home-free.

But you probably won't have to worry about that for a little while yet.  You need 80 dwarves for sieges to begin.  So speed is of the essence!
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And when you build your fortress walls from the bones of skeletal elephants, slain my weapons forged from melted goblin plunder, fed on cattle that graze on grass that blinks.  Then, you will know dwarfdom.

mszegedy

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2011, 11:09:09 pm »

So I'll only get goblin invaders if I have 80 dwarves? Or is it that they come after the first winter? I've never gotten to that point before (I picked up the game this last afternoon (holy shit I have amnesia), but I have known about it in-depth for a while). Also, how do I expand to other squares? I'm running out of southernly space, and there's a forest not far to the East.
Also, how do I "harvest" my aquifer? You guys make them sound really bad, but that's a steady supply of water ∴ booze (actually, what DO you need for booze? I know how to make it in detail in real life, but I'm guessing dwarfish ale is different, as I can't find any beer malt) right there. And I'm pretty sure that wells need stone...
Also, my specification for stone was "deep". What does that mean?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 11:30:36 pm by mszegedy »
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2011, 03:47:14 am »

Booze requires only brewable crops like plump helmets, cave wheat, pig tails, prickle berries, etc.  Water is for some reason never involved in the brewing process.

As for piercing the aquifer, your options depend on how thick it is, how many layers of earth you have above the water-logged soil, whether your map freezes in the winter, and just HOW much wood you have available.  You said that you can't dig past level 126, but what level is the surface at?
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
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"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

sdrawkcabcM tsirU

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2011, 04:04:35 am »

So I'll only get goblin invaders if I have 80 dwarves?
You'll only get sieges once you have 80 dwarves (and even then maybe not depending on other civilizations nearby). Goblins alone can't really do much about doors in their way, only the creatures they bring with them on sieges. They basically try to ambush the first thing they see, sit around and wait for awhile if they can't find a way in, then leave after awhile (probably).
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Or is it that they come after the first winter? I've never gotten to that point before (I picked up the game this last afternoon (holy shit I have amnesia), but I have known about it in-depth for a while).
It depends. Usually for me it is later than the first winter, often well into the second year. Before that it's all thieves, which are (mostly) harmless.
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Also, how do I expand to other squares? I'm running out of southernly space, and there's a forest not far to the East.
Unfortunately, you can't do that. You are stuck with the embark you start with, but you can change your initial embark size to be quite large. Unfortunately, depending on your system, that can lead to a lot of FPS lag later on if you make it too large.
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Also, how do I "harvest" my aquifer? You guys make them sound really bad, but that's a steady supply of water ∴ booze (actually, what DO you need for booze? I know how to make it in detail in real life, but I'm guessing dwarfish ale is different, as I can't find any beer malt) right there. And I'm pretty sure that wells need stone...
Hans got that one pretty well. Water is nice, but honestly you probably have more aquifer than you could ever conceivably need. The wiki can also be a lot of help in this area, as well as a lot of others. It can also be a source information overload, and it's fun to try things on your own as well. Good luck.
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Niseg

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2011, 11:59:56 am »


I recommend you pierce the aquifer in these stone-less ways;
.
.
I recommend you also stick with it through this.  It's a good learning experience. 

I agree!

 I  recently did my first successful aquifer piercing (the first attempt failed due to lack of layers). I tried the pump method and it went pretty slow and then I found there is a way down in another biome(one reason you can't find good many youtube videos on the subject)...

With the current world generator "Aquifer piercing" becomes one of the basic skills you need because it's really tough to find a metal rich embark without an aquifer .

There is one video I found on youtube which explains it well  but it's very long(22 minutes) so feel free to skip ahead.

All you need to do is this make a square (you pick a shape) "socket" (by channeling into aquifer ) and then drop a "plug"(big hunk of dirt that fits) on it. then you dig into it and build stairs. I had a minor side-effect of flooding the level I channeled the socket from but it was easily fixed with a single pump.

edit:added video link
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 03:45:42 pm by Niseg »
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Valguris

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2011, 12:54:42 pm »

There are good illustrations of how to pierce an aquifer in Oilfurnace story: http://www.timdenee.com/oilfurnace/

In short:
Drop large square of dry soil into water, then dig through dry soil you just dropped, straight down.

A bit longer explanation:
[d]esignate c[h]annel (large portions, for instance 5x5) as deep, as you can. It should be flooded by water.
Then, above it, create a plug, you'll drop in that water (5x5 in our example). To do so you'll have do dig around it, and probably above it. It will be probably still connected to the caves via floors around it. Again designate channel, to remove them (channeling digs square you marked and floor and square below). The plug should be dropped drop and you'll receivemessage that a cave-in occured.
Water from below the plug will be teleported on top of it. Let it flow somewhere. For example, channel again into aquifer 1x1 somewhere near. Then connect where the water on top of plug is, to the new hole into aquifer. Most water should flow back into aquifer this way. Wait until rest of the water evaporates.
Now you can dig staircase down through dry soil in your plug (the ones, that aren't marked as 'damp').
Ta-dam!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 01:10:47 pm by Valguris »
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eerr

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2012, 09:46:09 pm »

Does mud have any mudstone mixed in?
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Nan

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Re: Deep, Deep Soil
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 01:58:53 am »

There are good illustrations of how to pierce an aquifer in Oilfurnace story: http://www.timdenee.com/oilfurnace/

However it must be noted that the oilfurnance pictures are inaccurate - it horribly confused me when I first started trying to pierce aquifers because I thought that a plug of dirt could "ram" it's way through layers of dirt as shown in the oilfurnance pictures. While to make it work in game it's necessary to channel out the aquifer layers so it's more aptly described as air-dropping an island into a lake.
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