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[Granite26]

Tiles don't have a roof ceiling(like they have a floor), so you should be able to see what is one z level up from an open square.

This is extra useful when digging over known rivers or magma pools.(I can see the pool, I know it's not going up that far and I know it's going to be hot/damp.  Why should I have to redesignate every space I dig)

Alternately, allow spaces to be known hot/wet without being revealed.

[NW_Kohaku]

Confused me for a second by talking about a "roof" instead of the tile above an open space.

Anyway, yes, this could certainly be a useful feature.

[Maklak]

I see one problem with this: Z-levels are not directly above / below each other. To completely dig out space you need to channel it, therefore you wouldn't see water or magma from below. Seeing minerals above empty space could work, but then empty space with water would be seen from below as unmined rock. This would lead to confusion, and possibly accidents. 

[Granite26]

I see one problem with this: Z-levels are not directly above / below each other. To completely dig out space you need to channel it, therefore you wouldn't see water or magma from below. Seeing minerals above empty space could work, but then empty space with water would be seen from below as unmined rock. This would lead to confusion, and possibly accidents.

??

[Sowelu]

That's correct.  Each tile has a wall and a floor.  You could know that there's a floor up there, but not what's in the wall above it:  Is it granite?  Is it magma?  What happens if there's only a floor?  What happens if there's a floor with a creature standing on it, should you be able to see the creature?

Besides, consider this:  With this change, any time you dig out a simple horizontal corridor yourself, you would reveal the tiles above it!  After all, the scenario would be identical (open space below solid place).

Perhaps a compromise is that 'k' could show that a tile 'has a smooth granite roof'.  You'd need to fuss around with the cursor to learn what's up there, but it's something.

[Granite26]

That's correct.  Each tile has a wall and a floor.  You could know that there's a floor up there, but not what's in the wall above it:  Is it granite?  Is it magma?  What happens if there's only a floor?  What happens if there's a floor with a creature standing on it, should you be able to see the creature?

Besides, consider this:  With this change, any time you dig out a simple horizontal corridor yourself, you would reveal the tiles above it!  After all, the scenario would be identical (open space below solid place).

Perhaps a compromise is that 'k' could show that a tile 'has a smooth granite roof'.  You'd need to fuss around with the cursor to learn what's up there, but it's something.

Interesting points.  I'm ok with the horizontal corridor being revealed above, you're already revealing left and right as well...  I'd be ok with revealing below, through the floor.  It's not like dwarves couldn't dig in a little further to check what's underneath without cracking it open (fortification style).  If it weren't for the HFS exploit, I'd actually advocate leaving any digging that would otherwise open up a space as a fortification rather than fully dug out.

Your compromise isn't bad, but the main problem I was having was designation issue, so the better compromise (IMO) would be to just enable 'warm' and 'damp' descriptors on unknown tiles if you know where the source is.

[Stove]

The word "roof" implies that it is external (i.e. viewed from above). I would call it a ceiling.

[Bohandas]

That's correct.  Each tile has a wall and a floor.  You could know that there's a floor up there, but not what's in the wall above it:  Is it granite?  Is it magma?  What happens if there's only a floor?  What happens if there's a floor with a creature standing on it, should you be able to see the creature?

A valid point.
I'd still like to at least see the floor though...

[Silverionmox]

It's a limitation of the display convention: a space consists out of two elements (the space itself and a floor), but there can be only one on the display. In the current game Sowelu's solution would be non-disruptive, but convey the extra information for those who wish to know it, respecting the logic that dwarves mine out an entire space except the floor. It should be displayed in the messages as eg. "You have struck emerald!", however, if dig underneath an emerald square.

(Aside: Which reminds me that changing the occurrence of gems so that we have "Bauxite, containing sapphires" rather than a complete square of sapphire would be nice and more interesting to display (background colour would be that of the stone, foreground color of the gem itself). Although that should be possible, but it's a huge quantity, a gem or gem cluster you can make a statue out of should be a non-artifact artifact level rarity.
Alternatively, any bauxite square could have a % chance (varying with locality, so you still have sapphire-rich and sapphire-poor areas) to yield a few sapphires when mined out, but you wouldn't be able to notice it beforehand that it contained sapphires, only deducing it from the previous yields of the local bauxite would work.)

Taking the other route would also be possible, and that's assuming a wall and ceiling in every square like there is a floor now. That would reveal only the rock of the square itself. It becomes possible to make thin walls that way (very useful for cabins, tents, tree houses, glass panes, etc.), but it would mean a definitive farewell to the ASCII-style display. It also means potentially more complicated commands, with all the beneficial and detrimental issues that brings.

[Granite26]

or, we could just dump the concept of floors...

[Sowelu]

If we dump the concept of floors, we need to leave a Z-level of solid rock between every single everything.

Yeah, it doesn't quite line up with the way walls work, but...

[Granite26]

I know, it's not an easy call, and there's good arguments for either side, but I would be willing to pay the cost.  Don't forget, you can add in 'flooring' as a construction.  You'd just have to enable constructions built on constructions.

[Sowelu]

Wait, so we dump floors, but you can still add flooring, and...but...I have no idea what you are proposing anymore.

[Granite26]

Wait, so we dump floors, but you can still add flooring, and...but...I have no idea what you are proposing anymore.

Right now, floors have a special place as 'between' z levels.  Take that special status away, so that the floor of a tile is the material of the next tile down.

If you (b)uild a (C)floor, you'll end up with a new floor taking up space in the square so you can't build anything else.  Change that so that you can build a floor and then build something on top of it.

Outside builders should be familiar with the problem.  If you build a square out of walls, climb on top and place floors the in the middle, you'll end up with a 'house', but when you try to build the second story, you'll see what I mean.

[Sowelu]

Oh, I see what you're getting at now.

I'm just worried that somehow, this'll require us to only build stuff every other level.

I mean, if a floor is the material of whatever's underneath, then how would you build one over open space?