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[JanusTwoface]

Have you played in a game with Zathras/Book before?

[JanusTwoface]

Meh, the answer to that isn't actually that important.

The point is that is par for the course for Book. He opens just about every game I've seen him in with something either humorous or flavorful. Usually, he'll tone it down / get more serious as the game goes on.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

Allow me to suggest an alternative: You are scum and you know that you have to random vote someone to fulfil the status quo. To make matters easier, you go (either conciously or subconciously) for the first name see, in this case IronyOwl. You may say it's farfetched, but I have seen it (and done it) before.

What do you say to that?

   I have gotten a number of reactions to my post and at the least we where arguing about something important ingame and not something random. The big question is what would have been different if I had just used random.org to vote a name and ended up with IronyOwl?

I've been watching the interplay between the two of you and I think the two of you aren't entirely on the same page.

For the most part I agree with IronyOwl in that you are the first to mention blame and the first to associate the blame with Supercharazad specifically.

IronyOwl's post saying that "I am quick to assign blame where blame is due, yes." is a little strange, but I immediately went to Org rather than Supercharazad. That might be my own past experience though, I've been in many games with Org and none with Supercharazad.

I think that both of you are attaching too much emphasis to the argument though. It's a suspicious point, but not *that* suspicious.

   We probably are putting to much emphasis on this argument but that is mostly because there is nothing else to really argue about at the moment.

[Book]

Ooh, flavour. Next time why not just say what you mean, instead of obfuscating with your flavour, Book?

Hey, in a game like this, it's a nice touch for the first post. And what it meant was clear, or at least would be for the person to whom it was targeted. But yeah, let's not overdo the flavour bit like, say, by quoting the whole friggin' thing when it's not needed.

Zrk2: Was there a question attached to your vote? Or a point, a case, a request, or something? What do you make of IronyOwl and Akhier so far? What class is better in your opinion for scum and why?


A couple more:

Tyberix: If you were scum, and had a chance to choose, would you quest for an item or pick one from the pool? Do you have any opinions on the arguments going on between the most active players so far?

Ottofar: You've been lurky of late. Can we expect you to be active this game? Should we lynch you if you fail to live up to your reply? Give us some thoughts on how you think the class system is going to work out, and who would be the scariest scum team from those playing.

Painiac: What qualities would you like to see in your scumbuddies? Do you have any reads on Org and Janus so far? Which class would you choose if you were town or scum?

Janus: There are no third parties this game; if they were possible in a future game, which third parties would you like to see? Which ones would you like to play, and with which class? Also, please no talking about ongoing games outside the thread, dude!

PPE: Zrk2 and I have had a couple of games in common, yes. One of which is still ongoing.

[JanusTwoface]

I have gotten a number of reactions to my post and at the least we where arguing about something important ingame and not something random. The big question is what would have been different if I had just used random.org to vote a name and ended up with IronyOwl?

Getting people talking (particularly about something game related) is an excellent goal.

So far as the difference between what you did and "randomly" choosing IronyOwl is that you brought the reasoning up and brought it up after the fact. If you hadn't mentioned it, I doubt we would have been having this conversation. Likewise if you had mentioned it when making the vote. The combination of the two set of my suspicion alarm.

Janus: There are no third parties this game; if they were possible in a future game, which third parties would you like to see? Which ones would you like to play, and with which class?

I personally would like to play as a Survivor (I can stay out of the line of fire quite well if I put my mind to it) or a SK (so I can kill of players that annoy me). 

Bard, Mage, or Merchant would be useful for the former to keep useful items. Probably Warrior for the latter for obvious reasons although Thief would be interesting as it both gives you an item and denies others the same.

As counterpoint, what were you hoping to get out of that question?

Also, please no talking about ongoing games outside the thread, dude!

In general, I agree with you.

In this case though, I'm don't really see it as talking about an ongoing game. Everything I have / will say about it is part of the public thread and doesn't actually have any bearing on the current state / outcome of that game.

I don't expect that line of conversation to continue, but if it does there are other examples (a little more effort to find though).

Fair point though, I'll not do it again.

[Book]

Janus: There are no third parties this game; if they were possible in a future game, which third parties would you like to see? Which ones would you like to play, and with which class?

I personally would like to play as a Survivor (I can stay out of the line of fire quite well if I put my mind to it) or a SK (so I can kill of players that annoy me). As counterpoint, what were you hoping to get out of that question?

Just what I'm getting; something to get the conversation going. You're pretty forward with your thoughts on people, so I didn't see it as necessary to poke you about that. That said, though, did Akhier's responses quell your suspicion alarm about him, or is it still on? Do you think Darvi's earlier question to me (about having a book) was an honest joke or veiled roleitemfishing? Would you consider roleitemfishing here a scumtell similar to rolefishing in a normal game?

As a SK, would you make efforts to off the main scum first, or would you just focus on players that annoyed you? Lurkers and Org generally annoy you, would they be amongst your prime targets?

Fair point though.

Agreed; it just has been irking me lately that people seem to like to do that more often. But yeah, enough said.

[JanusTwoface]

That said, though, did Akhier's responses quell your suspicion alarm about him, or is it still on?

Still on, although a little less than originally. Based on his opening vote and changing descriptions, both as mentioned before. I do want to see how the argument with IronyOwl plays out.

Do you think Darvi's earlier question to me (about having a book) was an honest joke or veiled roleitemfishing?

I'm leaning a good way towards joke (and an amusing one at that). Particularly since there are no 'Book' items (so far as I can tell).

Would you consider roleitemfishing here a scumtell similar to rolefishing in a normal game?

I don't consider roles as sacred as most people seem to, particularly in games such as this one where everyone has both a role and at least one item. I don't think role/itemfishing is an automatic scumtell.

As a SK, would you make efforts to off the main scum first, or would you just focus on players that annoyed you? Lurkers and Org generally annoy you, would they be amongst your prime targets?

I'd wait to go after the scum. It'll narrow down the players much more quickly with their kill in addition to my own, so long as I can avoid them killing me. In a game with PMs, I'd try to directly seek them out, although that isn't the case here.

Lurkers are good targets, traditional Org is a good target (although he'd hate me for it), players I haven't played against are good targets (because they'll be harder to get a read on).

[Supercharazad]

Alright, now that I'm awake:

I think we should not be particularly wary of lurkers, as they will be modkilled, and more wary of semi-lurkers who have posts which are either few and far between or absolutly useless, or a combination of the two.

so long as I can avoid them killing me.

Ooh, interesting.

Janus: If you are town, then survival shouldn't matter, only the death of mafia, but mafia are MUCH more afraid of death as it hurts their chances of winning.
Why do you care so much about survival?

[IronyOwl]

   IronyOwl, I have just said the same thing in a multitude of different ways. Its like the books "Enders Game" and "Enders Shadow", I tell the same thing in different ways.

This is demonstrably false.

First Reason: Unspecified. However, must be different from consecutive reasons, as they rely on something I said after this.

Spoiler: Reason One (click to show/hide)

   IronyOwl, quick to blame someone aren't you?

Second Reason: Mentioning his name near a negative attribute connects the two.

Spoiler: Reason Two (click to show/hide)

   IronyOwl, quick to blame someone aren't you?

I am quick to assign blame where blame is due, yes. Do you take offense at calling people out for lurking or being useless?

   In your response here you mention blame being due
yet you do not give any reason for it to be due in this case.
You do mention lurking and being useless though, this connects
the two in a persons mind.

Third Reason: As reason two, but doing so after stating that I place blame where blame was due. Once again, wrong order.

Spoiler: Reason Three (click to show/hide)

So you feel that asking someone about X is also inherently accusing them of it. That's a rather interesting stance to take- tell me, does this mean you've been insinuating that JTF is unknown and Darvi is an IC?

   It is not the fact that you asked about it. The problem
is that you did it after saying you had put blame where
blame was due but not actually mentioning what you
blamed him for.

2 and 3 are certainly similar, and both mention that blaming him without stating why are noteworthy. You don't actually go into detail why.

Regardless, all three are clearly different explanations for the same claim. I'll ask you again: Why does your story keep changing?

This would also be your third story on why I blame Super.

Wait... do you blame him or don't you?

I don't.

Also, when you said "I am quick to assign blame where blame is due, yes." was that implying that you were assigning blame in that first post or was that supposed to be a more general comment?

More general. I suppose the added "Do you have a problem with..." part might have made it seem more specific, but that wasn't the intent.

I think we should not be particularly wary of lurkers, as they will be modkilled, and more wary of semi-lurkers who have posts which are either few and far between or absolutly useless, or a combination of the two.

Generally the term "lurkers" means people who are posting enough to not be modkilled. "Active lurking" is usually used to describe people who are posting reasonably often but with zero content.

In any case, how wary do you think we should be with people who post rarely and/or with zero content? What should be done when we notice one? How scummy do you think lurking/semi-lurking generally is?

[Tyberix]

Woah that went fast, reading now answers/anything else in a moment.

[Painiac]

Painiac: What qualities would you like to see in your scumbuddies? Do you have any reads on Org and Janus so far? Which class would you choose if you were town or scum?

They should be cooperative and active. Making plans with bunch of unwilling lurkers hurts. Also, they should be competent on their own: less connection means less chances to connect us.

Janus seems towny for now. Org is enigma, and I don't have any idea how approach him... I will observe him for now.

I don't have any specific idea for class if I would be town. Every class is quite useful. I would go with random, because better/additional item is neat. And mod will chose good class for town anyway for getting things balanced out. If I would be scum, probably thief. Disabling priests and other important roles is very good thing.

Book: ... Your question looks like rolefishing. Care to explain?

JanusTwoface: What are your experiences with Org?

Darvi: What are your reads about players for now?

IronyOwl: What do you think about Akhier and his quick attack on you?

[Supercharazad]

Generally the term "lurkers" means people who are posting enough to not be modkilled. "Active lurking" is usually used to describe people who are posting reasonably often but with zero content.

In any case, how wary do you think we should be with people who post rarely and/or with zero content? What should be done when we notice one? How scummy do you think lurking/semi-lurking generally is?

I think we should be pretty wary of them. I think lurking is very scummy, because it doesn't help town in any way.

I think lurkers should be lynched, because if they DO flip town, it's no great loss because they arn't helping, and if they DON'T flip town, we have less mafia to deal with.

[Supercharazad]

Woah that went fast, reading now answers/anything else in a moment.

It's been over an hour.

Care to explain why reading the thread takes an hour, Tyberix?

That post was useless, you did not deliver anything.

[Supercharazad]

In fact, you're more scummy than Janus right now, so:

Unvote
Vote Tyberix
FoS Janus

[Tyberix]

Tyberix: Would you rather try to protect confirmed town or would you try to confirm scum by investigation, if you had the choice?

There's nothing like confirmed town before it's confirmed by investigation so probably the latter.
Also you never know who mafia will target so it's kind of lottery - i prefer more stable outcome.

Tyberix, I haven't played with you before or watched a game you've been in, so two questions for you:
- What lesson did you learn from Beginner's Mafia XX? What about Beginner's Mafia XXI?
- If you could choose between an item that grants you a night kill and one that grants you a protection, which would you choose? Why?

Few things i learned from BM XX : Lurking kills games that's for sure.
When somebody suddenly bring an effort to attack current top vote,
 he should probably be attacked as fast as possbile just to check if he get nervous;p
 BM XXI : Scum have it easier,seriously ;p
 And one not-so serious thing : Lynching supercharazad on D1 is probably loss of time ;p
 
 As for which item  i would choose it's hard to say : at this stage of the game i would probably take protect, killing nearly random people isn't best idea ;p
 If the odds are against us N1 could be killfest anyway ,so protect is more likely to to something positive.
 

Tyberix: If you were scum, and had a chance to choose, would you quest for an item or pick one from the pool? Do you have any opinions on the arguments going on between the most active players so far?

Well that's hard question to answer,first i don't think being scum or not would in anyway change my decision, unless i known where kill items are. Now i would probably choose public pool.

Ok, now let's get on Akhier/Irony dispute since that's what i think the most active topic you ask about:
Akhier's attack looked like a simple RVS at the beginning but now he press on without stating reasons for a while, it looks like it's more of dedicated random-attack than scumhunt.

Akhier: Would you not vote irony if he would fos instead of voting in his first post ? Also do you think single sentence should have that much impact on your vote as you suggested ?


FakeEdit:
Supercharazad[/b] Some people have lifes too,also talking about contribution, what your two last post bring except reasonless vote ? How i'am more scummy ? And why JTF is scummy if you care to explain, since you haven't stated this yet.