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Author Topic: More weapons  (Read 6516 times)

krell215

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More weapons
« on: February 23, 2011, 01:47:03 pm »

Dwarves should be able to construct nearly any weapon in the game from Greataxes to Two-Handed Swords to jagged spears. When I think of dwarves I usually think axes, mauls, hammers, greataxes, and crossbows.

Anyway, dwarves are supposed to be legendary craftsmen as a people, it would make sense they would know how to construct a wide variety of weapons even if they personally can't use them.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 02:58:06 pm »

Isn't this exactly what modding is for?

You just have to insert the tags for dwarves to make those greatswords into the entity raw.
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Vattic

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 03:10:29 pm »

Isn't this exactly what modding is for?
It might be but it's still a fair suggestion. I would like the dwarves to be able to make the other weapons. The other races should seek out your legendary smiths and request such items be made.
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Dutchling

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 03:20:04 pm »

I'd only like this if all the different weapons would have different uses, right now all of the weapons seem to have different uses except for the mace wich seems to be plain inferior/equal to the warhammer
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Max White

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 05:08:10 pm »

Dwarfs do not craft great axes for a rather simple reason... They can't use them.

krell215

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 02:18:46 pm »

Like Vattic said, it would be nice if diplomats made orders for well made and decorated weapons, armor, and metalcrafts.

And as far as why dwarves can't use items Like the maul and greataxe, I still don't understand that one.
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Jake

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 11:31:16 pm »

Vanilla does have a pretty poor selection of two-handed weapons for dwarves at the moment; they can use longswords but that's about it. Dwarf-scale pikes and two-handed axes are easy enough to mod in, though.
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Unfrozen Caveman

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 04:29:00 am »

I like the idea that dwarves should be able to make nearly every sort of weapon that exists in their world, whether they can wield them or not.  Less dwarfy weapons could take more skill or time to construct and gain proficiency with, but they should ultimately be a vanilla option, IMHO.
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Granite26

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 08:56:32 am »

There's really 4 tags a weapon needs

1 knows how to make(can make)
2 knows how to use ( no penalty)
3 can physically use (can use at all)
4 culturally relevant (npcs will use)

These are all independant aspects, althought the game hasn't landed on the distinctions let.

Grimlocke

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2011, 10:27:26 am »

A way to add weapon smithing options to an entity without actualy making them carry them around in worldgen would be most welcome. Right now adding two-handers to dwarves will actualy case them to carry them around in worldgen, or for example when they serve as mechant bodyguard at your fortress.

Specific trade requests would also make a neat addition to caravan arc. Instead of asking for 'longswords' a human trader could ask for a single 'steel longsword of the finest quality, beset with jewels and gold' or something. After making the sword and selling it for tons of profit, you could later find it back in the hands of some human lord when you visit his castle.

A better selection of weapons also wouldnt hurt. Polearms could be used to give dwarves a variance of two-handed weapons, perhaps they could replace since we dont have formations or longer range melee attacks yet.
I myself replaced my pike, greataxe and maul with polearms that serve about the same role, as well as some roles that the default weapons dont have. The polehammer for example has a bash and a stab attack on it.
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Granite26

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 11:40:23 am »

So, the local nobles making demands aren't enough, you want foreigners asking for crap too?

I like it.

Nopkar

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 08:48:10 pm »

Imagine the ability to name ANY weapon, engrave it and encrust it with jewels.

Because of DF population problems, I want my dedicated militia of 5+ warriors to have personalized weapons instead of (insert nameless material-weapon here) or better yet, the first dwarf to pick up and USE the weapon names it, just like they engrave things now. dunno, just suggestions.

P.S the more Weapons/Armor/Tools I have to make, the happier I am :D 1500 weapons and armor is dandy with me! and give me tower shields damnit! (I like Tower Guards :P)
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Max White

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 09:01:27 pm »

There's really 4 tags a weapon needs

1 knows how to make(can make)
2 knows how to use ( no penalty)
3 can physically use (can use at all)
4 culturally relevant (npcs will use)

These are all independant aspects, althought the game hasn't landed on the distinctions let.

The weapon, or the entity, because it seems very silly to put these tags on the weapon, knowing that differing eneitys will have access to them. No, rather you need these on the entity. Further more, we have the first tag, it is the most defining thing to weapon use currently ingame. So a goblin knows how to make a whip, but a dwarf dosn't, even though they are of similar size.

As for 'knows how to use', it dosn't seem realistic to say that an entire race just knows how to use a weapon. Rather, specific instances of that race may know how to use a weapon, and this is shown in there skills list. A dabbling sword user dosn't know how to use a sword, a legendary sword user does, and so once again this is already ingame to the level that it should be. Despite this, if you wanted to, you could mod the creature to have a minimum level in something, so that all elves would be half decent bowmen, and all dwarfs know how to mine.

The third one is, once again, already ingame. The abilty to use a weapon is defined by the required size to use, and the creature size. This can be adjusted for two handed capabilty aswell. This is why humans can use longswords with one hand, and dwarfs can't.

The last one is some what covered by the first. A race makes and uses weapons you allow it to make and use. Why do we need one tag for "Can make" and another for "Will make"? We might as well skip it and just have a "Can make" tag, and assume they will make use of it. I guess if you realy wanted your dwarfs to make exotic weapons, we can mod that in using custom reactions. So even this can be done already.

So thats four for four. Not a single one of those tags is needed.

sockless

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 09:11:07 pm »

Well when a noble wants something, you don't get any reward for completing it, just threat of punishment if you don't.

When foreign civilisations come to order weapons, they would pay you. It would probably be in bullion or in coins. Coins are rather useless now, but will hopefully be more useful by the end of the caravan arc.
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Granite26

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Re: More weapons
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 09:29:01 pm »

There's really 4 tags a weapon needs

1 knows how to make(can make)
2 knows how to use ( no penalty)
3 can physically use (can use at all)
4 culturally relevant (npcs will use)

These are all independant aspects, althought the game hasn't landed on the distinctions let.

The weapon, or the entity, because it seems very silly to put these tags on the weapon, knowing that differing eneitys will have access to them. No, rather you need these on the entity. Further more, we have the first tag, it is the most defining thing to weapon use currently ingame. So a goblin knows how to make a whip, but a dwarf dosn't, even though they are of similar size.

As for 'knows how to use', it dosn't seem realistic to say that an entire race just knows how to use a weapon. Rather, specific instances of that race may know how to use a weapon, and this is shown in there skills list. A dabbling sword user dosn't know how to use a sword, a legendary sword user does, and so once again this is already ingame to the level that it should be. Despite this, if you wanted to, you could mod the creature to have a minimum level in something, so that all elves would be half decent bowmen, and all dwarfs know how to mine.

The third one is, once again, already ingame. The abilty to use a weapon is defined by the required size to use, and the creature size. This can be adjusted for two handed capabilty aswell. This is why humans can use longswords with one hand, and dwarfs can't.

The last one is some what covered by the first. A race makes and uses weapons you allow it to make and use. Why do we need one tag for "Can make" and another for "Will make"? We might as well skip it and just have a "Can make" tag, and assume they will make use of it. I guess if you realy wanted your dwarfs to make exotic weapons, we can mod that in using custom reactions. So even this can be done already.

So thats four for four. Not a single one of those tags is needed.

You can make stuff you physically can't use in order to export it. (Dwarves making greatswords for export)
You can pick up something you don't know how to make and still use it. (Handgun, Greek fire)
You can lack any idea of how to begin to use one to the extent that even trial and error won't help (Whips, Nun-chucks, helicopter, and magic wands)
You can have weapons you could use if you had one,  know how to make but your culture doesn't tend to use (Katana, Pike)

You're correct about the tags being for the weapons but in the entity raws.  You're also right about the first tag being already there, although why you think that it already being there means it doesn't need to be there is beyond me.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 09:47:11 pm by Granite26 »
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