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[EmperorJon]

Trade Tard Caravans

Ok, the elves were the worst with no protection, but now even the human and dwarf caravans get slaughtered by golbin ambushes. It's ridiculous. One of 2 scenarios always happens.


Imagine this is my fort.
# = normal ground.
f = where the actual entrance to my stuff is.
c = example trade caravan start.
a = ambush.

Scenario 1. Instant ambush. Even if I had a squad of Adamantine wielding berskerkers capable of taking out the number of bowmen I get spammed with, the caravan is dead before I have a chance. I just get 'A caravan fro-AN AMBUSH, CURSE THEM'. -.-

#########a
#########c
####f #####
##########
##########
##########

Result: Caravan dead. Racer unhappy. Ambush outside.

Scenario 2. The caravan gets inside before the ambush reaches them. That's all well and good, but then I have to go out and kill the ambush before the caravan leaves. Hey, I wouldn't mind just letting the caravan leave via a back entrance, but the ambush tends to the stick around until anything else is wandering around outside.

##########
#########c
####f #####
##########
##########
a#########

Result: Caravan sometimes alive, sometimes dead. Dwarves dead. Etc. Etc.

Seriously, I'm either forced to send a force outside to kill goblins all the time (an usually lose a lot of dwarves), or I have to let the stupid caravans die and take the consequences. Is there no middle ground? Even walling off the entire map usually leads to the ambush reaching the caravan before they can reach the entrance.

Don't just say 'Turn invasions off' (which I may do...), I perfectly accept that there's going to be conflict, it's just 3 times a year losing everyone and everything, or forcing elves and humans to declare war on me... is well, a little too much...

[Dutchling]

I have a solution for ambishes outside when the caravan wants to leave. Just create an underground passageway (via the caverns becasue you can't dig the stone at the edge but you can build a floor there). If you just block the way out they will leave via the underground tunnels connecting your fortress with the mountainhomes!

[Torgan]

To help the caravans get to your fortress you could always dig tunnels from your fortress to each map edge with stairs or a ramp to let them get down.  This should encourage them to take this route, set traps at the tunnel entrance to alert you to ambushes and/or wipe them out.

This could mean you have a four pronged siege attacking your fortress if your traps get overwhelmed of course.

[EmperorJon]

The problem with this method is the same as the walls. They tend to get attacked before they manage to reach the way in.


Oh well, I'm going to wall off the entire map, and build ways in which are just massive trap holes with a gate which is open except in case of being overwhelmed. So they should just run through. Weapon traps and cage traps, so once the leader is caught they all get chopped. XD

The problem with exiting via the edge of a cavern is even if I wall of all the rest, that's an open cavern edge, I mean, Armok knows the moment the caravan walks towards the edge a forgotten beast will come off the edge of the map.

[Sphalerite]

I have used the following somewhat exploity method to deal with this problem.

Place your trade depot underground, and then dig a 3 tile wide tunnel to about 7 tiles away from the edge of the map.  Dig a 3 tile wide ramp upwards from this point to the surface, then cover the remaining 3 tile wide path with floor or road.

Build a wall around the part of the path that's more than 5 tiles from the wall.  To cover the 5 tile long stretches where you can't build walls, build two 5 tile wide raising drawbridges.  Connect them to a lever, then pull the lever to turn the bridges into walls.

The surface will look as follows:

Code: [Select]

<-edge of map
........
........
bbbbbWW.
+++++_W.
+++++_W. ->underground path to your trade depot
+++++_W.
bbbbbWW.
........
........

Trade caravans will only spawn on this protected edge, because this is the only point with a 3 tile wide access path to your trade depot.  Make sure there are no alternate 3 tile wide paths from any map edge point to your trade depot.  Ambushes will continue to spawn on any random point on the map edge, and will very rarely spawn on this protected entrance.

[Guedez]

it's quite easy actualy, let them die, then they will start a war, then the war army gets wiped by ambushes, then you win the war

[JarinArenos]

Trade caravans will only spawn on this protected edge, because this is the only point with a 3 tile wide access path to your trade depot.  Make sure there are no alternate 3 tile wide paths from any map edge point to your trade depot.  Ambushes will continue to spawn on any random point on the map edge, and will very rarely spawn on this protected entrance.

You've actually had this work successfully in .16 or later? I used a combination of walls and channels to make sure that the only point on ANY map edge that was shown as caravan accessible was the short path to my depot (only segment showing green was the 3-wide path I'd created), but the caravans still spawned anywhere they felt like. I assumed it was a part of wagons not functioning, and the caravans no longer caring about the 3-wide path.

[darkflagrance]

Were there any other paths from the edge of the map to your depot? I think the path width doesn't matter, so long as the private entrance is the only way of reaching the depot from the map edge.

[assimilateur]

Don't just say 'Turn invasions off'

How much do you care about trading in the long term? If the answer is "not at all" then I recommend turning off caravans after a while.

I say "after a while", because apparently, trade is essential to get migrants. You could simply remove the active season tags from your dwarven, elven and human entities in your region's raws after you're done with migrants.

[JarinArenos]

Were there any other paths from the edge of the map to your depot? I think the path width doesn't matter, so long as the private entrance is the only way of reaching the depot from the map edge.

There were non-3-wide paths available. The only path that showed green in the Depot accessibility view was the one I made, though. ALL other access needs to be closed off?

[tolkafox]

Fill the world with magma, end of caravan/ambush/immigrant problems forever.

[Sphalerite]

Trade caravans will only spawn on this protected edge, because this is the only point with a 3 tile wide access path to your trade depot.  Make sure there are no alternate 3 tile wide paths from any map edge point to your trade depot.  Ambushes will continue to spawn on any random point on the map edge, and will very rarely spawn on this protected entrance.

You've actually had this work successfully in .16 or later? I used a combination of walls and channels to make sure that the only point on ANY map edge that was shown as caravan accessible was the short path to my depot (only segment showing green was the 3-wide path I'd created), but the caravans still spawned anywhere they felt like. I assumed it was a part of wagons not functioning, and the caravans no longer caring about the 3-wide path.

I have had this consistently working in .16.

There is sometimes an issue where caravans will only spawn on certain map edges, usually because there is a river or other barrier across the site, and the civilization sending the caravan can only reach one side of the map.  When that happens you need to make the entrance on the map edge that the caravan actually spawns from.

[idgarad]

Build a network of watch towers every 20 or so blocks with a single marksdwarf stationed there with a bait animal in a labyrinth. The moment the attack they should bee-line to the bait animal keeping them away from the caravan if it arrives. A the marksdwarf will get a few shots off and the traps in the labyrinth will usually take care of them.

[Lagslayer]

Make a ring of cage traps all around the outer edge of your embark. Any ambushes that aren't kobolds should set off an alarm.

[darkflagrance]

ALL other access needs to be closed off?

Correct.