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[Thizda]

Mobile Engineering - Dwarven style!

What I think would be nice in Dwarf Fortress is the ability to make wooden sticks and the likes, and then hold them together with constrainers and welders. Take Garry's Mod, for instance, see a difference? You can make mechanical destroyers in that.

What made GMod popular was what you have to add. And no, I'm not advertising, I'm just saying that the mechanical system is very fixed in DF, even if it is creative. This would be good in Adventure Mode, too. Instead of limiting huge contraptions to the fortresses, make them accessable in the Adventure Mode.

The amount of memory this would take up would be staggering, but most of us have at least 1GB of RAM. In fact, I have 3GB. If you're thinking about optimising in a memory-beast like this, don't even bother if I were you. Set 800MB the limit and call it a day.

Examples?

The rules of the welds and constraints would be variable, for instance:

o - constrained point
x - open space
| = bamboo
E = weld point
M = metal
_ = wall
a = hydrualic
     ________
     axxxxxxxa
     axxxxxxxa
     axx|o|xxa
     ax|xxx|xa
     o|xxxxx|o
     |xxxxxxx|
     |xxxxxxx|
     |xxxxxxx|
     ExxxxxxE
     MxxxxxxM

The result would be that the legs move up/down from the commands of the hydrualic, if text wrap didn't mess it up.

The problem of micro-management would be dire, that's what you will all think, but how about giving set triggers and commands, from other contraptions. This would be the start of mechanical, fully-functioning, mobile AI contraptions in DF.

But how would it be built?

It would be built by first placing the pieces you want on top of other peices that are already there, either left or right and can be attached to anything, even dwarfs for slave labor.

The welds can be set like this:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
E||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Ex
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
= tightness 10

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
E|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxE
xx||xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx||x
xxxx|||||xxxxxxxxxxx|||||xx
xxxxxxx||||||||||||||||xxxxx
= 1/2 tightness

What are the variables?


Constraints would have a fixed tightness of ten, but they would be moved as a group with variable looseness. (Tempoary constraint class each physics step (VERY UNRECOMMENDED) or iliterates.) The others, like hydrualics would move like parent constraints.

What else would this be additionable to, and how?

This would be able to introduce tools like magnets into the game, too. Which would move metal objects, like metal constraints, towards it. Ah - ELECTROMANGETS; their flexible triggering ability would allow a magnitude of activation.

[NW_Kohaku]

... I am not really sure what you're even talking about, but I think you're talking about having moving fortress components and other similar items, which are all part of the Improved Mechanics suggestion thread, and most of what I can understand that you are talking about is already in there.

Much of this is also already planned for being put into the game already.

The exception being things like electromagnets, which are simply far too anachronistic for this game, anyway.

[Max White]

Your not in handing in your highschool project, your addressing the DF forums. Keep your titles to a reasonable size. Also, this has been talked about for some time now, and is in the works to be implmented one day, after a few more iterations.

[JohnieRWilkins]

If I'm understanding correctly, Thizda wants the ability to attach parts to other parts(problematic, but cool), and then control the mechanisms with switches(will be in/already partially in).

I think that the only way this can be put into DF is through welding of two metallic squares (<magmaT melting point mechanisms, or wall sections, or w/e) of the same metal with magma and water, like maybe if metals were covered with magma, heated to glowing, then pushed together by a mechanism, then immediately covered with water. The formed obsidian could be mined away to reveal a multi-square construction. There are probably many engineering problems with this, but hey, it's a friggin' fantasy game. Sadly dwarves don't have access to acetylene. Distilling organics from crude 2hard, dwarf 2dumb.

Your not in handing in your highschool project, your addressing the DF forums. Keep your titles to a reasonable size. Also, this has been talked about for some time now, and is in the works to be implmented one day, after a few more iterations.

Play nice please.

[Bohandas]

Much of this is also already planned for being put into the game already.

The exception being things like electromagnets, which are simply far too anachronistic for this game, anyway.

I like anachronistic... like in Adventure Time, or Epic Battle Fantasy, or Afro-Samurai......

[Thizda]

If I'm understanding correctly, Thizda wants the ability to attach parts to other parts(problematic, but cool), and then control the mechanisms with switches(will be in/already partially in).

I think that the only way this can be put into DF is through welding of two metallic squares (<magmaT melting point mechanisms, or wall sections, or w/e) of the same metal with magma and water, like maybe if metals were covered with magma, heated to glowing, then pushed together by a mechanism, then immediately covered with water. The formed obsidian could be mined away to reveal a multi-square construction. There are probably many engineering problems with this, but hey, it's a friggin' fantasy game. Sadly dwarves don't have access to acetylene. Distilling organics from crude 2hard, dwarf 2dumb.

Your not in handing in your highschool project, your addressing the DF forums. Keep your titles to a reasonable size. Also, this has been talked about for some time now, and is in the works to be implmented one day, after a few more iterations.

Play nice please.

No, you didn't completely understand correctly. I wanted to get the Dwarfs to climb the contraption and get to the part where they need to add a material, by climbing a set of pipes, which would introduce a concept of ladders. (Not ramps or stairs, ladders which fall down based on the status of the other ladders blocks below)

Also, if anyone here ever done mechanics in school, they'd know what most of this is.
Hydrualics = extendable/contractable
Weld = pretty obvious
Constraint = Like Hydrualic, only more rigid and movable.

[JohnieRWilkins]

No, you didn't completely understand correctly. I wanted to get the Dwarfs to climb the contraption and get to the part where they need to add a material, by climbing a set of pipes, which would introduce a concept of ladders. (Not ramps or stairs, ladders which fall down based on the status of the other ladders blocks below)

Also, if anyone here ever done mechanics in school, they'd know what most of this is.
Hydrualics = extendable/contractable
Weld = pretty obvious
Constraint = Like Hydrualic, only more rigid and movable.

Oh well sorry, the weak point in your suggestion is the lack of acetylene. In order to "weld" metals together without electricity or that, you need some way of heating the metal until it's glowing, pounding it with hammers or something, and then joining the two soft spots. Dwarves have magma. Dwarves have charcoal furnaces. Realistically the only way for dwarves to be able to join two pieces of metal together is to do it on the ground by heating the metals, and then pitch the resulting part up to stand it to have a two square block, maybe a square block with a metal mechanism sticking out from somewhere.

It may be easily doable vertically with metal screws and wooden components though.

It's debatable whether usable hydraulics belong in DF or not, but pressurized liquids exist, and so do pipe sections, and so do 3*3 pump structures. I personally don't know how to feel about it. I'm all for more physical realism that transcends the time frame, as long as there are no scaled down applications, like a man-portable steam engine.

[FearfulJesuit]

I think we should strike a compromise: Toady should make it feasible for raw modders who want steam to put it in, but not have it in Vanilla DF.

[irmo]

I think we should strike a compromise: Toady should make it feasible for raw modders who want steam to put it in, but not have it in Vanilla DF.

IOW, he should write and test all the code and get the whole apparatus working when he doesn't intend to use it?

[Bohandas]

I think we should strike a compromise: Toady should make it feasible for raw modders who want steam to put it in, but not have it in Vanilla DF.

He should have it in vanilla DF. You can choose not to build the relevant buildings if you so choose (and the buildings and mechanisms would really be what was being added, as steam itself already exists in DF)

[Granite26]

Steam and steampower are two very different things.  All thats needed for steampower is buildings that produce power but require fuel.(a la wind and water wheels).  At that point anything from steam to gas to nukes to soylent elf furnaces are possible to mod.  See the mechanics thread for more discussion.

[Bohandas]

You knoe. I don't see why there should be opposition to steam power, given that it dates all the way back to the first century A.D. when it was invented by Heron of Alexandria. (Now, granted, it took eighteen hundred years for it to catch on, but that's immaterial)

[irmo]

You knoe. I don't see why there should be opposition to steam power, given that it dates all the way back to the first century A.D. when it was invented by Heron of Alexandria. (Now, granted, it took eighteen hundred years for it to catch on, but that's immaterial)

Have you even bothered searching this here forum to find out why there's opposition to steam power? We've been over this. We all know about Hero of Alexandria and his little steam-powered toy.

The short answer is that it does not match the feel of the world.

[El Cabra]

Nooo don't turn it into steam punk please!! Keep the medieval atmosphere as much as possible!!

I know it sounds like 'dwarfish' to be able to construct very complicated machines, etc. Eventually, steam planes, steam mounts. But I would rather leave this kind of work to goblins and/or gnomes and in another game.

[Bohandas]

Nooo don't turn it into steam punk please!! Keep the medieval atmosphere as much as possible!!

I know it sounds like 'dwarfish' to be able to construct very complicated machines, etc. Eventually, steam planes, steam mounts. But I would rather leave this kind of work to goblins and/or gnomes and in another game.

I would argue that it could be given to the goblins and/or gnomes in this game, and perhaps only be available to the dwarves through trade for the proper components.