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Author Topic: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?  (Read 849 times)

Kaiser Reinhard

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Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« on: February 21, 2011, 08:07:06 am »
So one of my armorers got into a fey mood, but instead of grabbing the steel I had around he grabbed so gold, the only metal my fortress was able to produce on its own, and grabbed loads more materials before setting to work and finishing his masterpiece: a gold mail shirt. Would being an artifact make it any better than high quality steel mail shirts?
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Lamphare

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 08:29:19 am »
i supposed steel armour is overwhelmingly better, especially a masterfully made one.
but masterful products can hardly be called 'normal', lol.

better than one time i forgot to forbid materials, so my weaponsmith ended up making an aluminum warhammer.
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Grek

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 08:32:19 am »
The steel will be better for protecting the lives of your champions.

The artifact will be better for protecting the glory of your champions.
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Oliolli

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 08:53:02 am »
Quote from: Grek on February 21, 2011, 08:32:19 am
The steel will be better for protecting the lives of your champions.

The artifact will be better for protecting the glory of your champions.

Which would you prefer?

Quote from: Lamphare on February 21, 2011, 08:29:19 am
i supposed steel armour is overwhelmingly better, especially a masterfully made one.
but masterful products can hardly be called 'normal', lol.

better than one time i forgot to forbid materials, so my weaponsmith ended up making an aluminum warhammer.

Still better than one made out of The Other A.
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Bouchart

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 01:22:41 pm »
The artifact gold mail shirt should be decent, at least.  Whether it is better than steel mail I don't know.  The armor system is very hard to follow.
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sambojin

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 07:25:58 pm »
From my very limited experience with artifact armour I'd go for the steel mail any day. The physics system of DF now seems to trump the quality system, where a basic steel axe will beat an artifact silver one almost every time.

Gold = bad armour. Even artifact gold armour is bad. Think of it as parade armour. High worth, but little use on the battlefield.

Steel = good armour. Even "no-quality" steel armour is a godsend on the battlefield, just because it's made of good, dwarven steel.

Just remember, there's no such thing as badly made things when its made by a dwarf. They don't do it. Even a novice or dabbler turns out good quality merchandise, they'll just do it slowly. What they consider "no-quality" is still well made. They can also make things of "exceptional" quality. Even novices in any trade. Think of Ferrari engines but in armour form. They "might" be a bit better than other things if they're "exceptionally" well made, but mainly they're just a hell of a lot more expensive. A car engine of certain specs is still a car engine, no matter the manufacturer.

I could be completely and totally wrong in the above statements. But metal type>quality as far as I know. "Steel, high quality" is better than "steel, no quality", but the differences are much more minor than a crappy type of metal vs a good one.


"All dwarfven craftsmanship is of the highest quality."

« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 08:49:29 pm by sambojin »
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BurnedToast

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 07:42:01 pm »
IIRC Toady said artifacts just use the masterwork bonus for protection and damage and such.

So would you use a masterwork gold mail shirt over a no quality steel mail shirt? (the correct answer is no, the !!fun!! answer is yes).

Plus like sambojin said these days it seems quality is not very important, it's almost all the material.
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Oliolli

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2011, 08:41:07 am »
So an artifact gold armour to no-quality steel is like a Mac to a PC?
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Quote from: Girlinhat
When all you've got is an adjustable spanner and an entire freight warehouse of terrifying cogs and gears, everything looks like "just a prototype".
Quote from: ThatAussieGuy
You all turned Swordthunders into a bastion of madness that seems to warp in on itself under its own hatred of sanity.  I'm so happy!
Quote from: Loud Whispers
drowning babies everywhere o-o

Nameless Archon

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2011, 09:06:27 am »
Quote from: Oliolli on February 22, 2011, 08:41:07 am
So an artifact gold armour to no-quality steel is like a Mac to a PC?
More like an 8086 model to an i7.
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malimbar04

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 08:56:09 am »
This reminds me of some story on the discovery channel of people who wore armor made of gold. I can't remember or find the specific details, but it went sort've like this:

- make a bunch of armor out of gold
- make armor really thin so it's actually wearable with the weight
- get slaughtered as cheap weapons tear through it like paper.
- profit (for invadors)
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Lagslayer

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 04:10:09 pm »
Gold armor is somewhere in between silver and bone, but also heavier.
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Lamphare

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Re: Artifact-quality but poor material vs good material but normal quality?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 04:19:10 pm »
i just had a hilarious idea from this
since the mod i play has training hammer
i could make one platinum armour, which would be the heaviest in game
and a featherwood training hammer, which is the lightest.
and put the hammer on hammerer's hands, and platinum armour on whoever got to be punished.  :P

the punishment is not the beating! but wearing the 80 kg armour while being beaten by a hammer basically lighter than film!
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