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[Rude]

I do think Gobs should have as much trouble getting things as dwarfs.

and with migrants coming in waves of 20 with only 1-3 "decent" dwarfs per, I'm pretty sure militias are supposed to be considered expendable.

Also, shouldn't there be more primitive weapon options? a wooden club would be more effective than nothing (staffs?, rock hammers? atlatls? slings?) even training weapons should be dangerous (or painful at least) enough to convince a troglodyte to run instead of fight for 100+ pages. primitive hunting spears were little more than fire hardened wooden spears and they were dangerous enough to kill.

Annoying is re-designating your 60+ room bedroom layer by hand for the 3rd time because of unknown aquifer borders. or re-designating the same room every time a miner digs a block because your digging under a lake. Hard is managing less than what you think you need as opposed to steamrolling gobs like their cotton candy. I mean real cotton candy. Made from sugar.

[dieffenbachj]

I only started playing with DF-Aught-10, so the only DF experience I've ever known is abundant metal. But I have to say, I'm enjoying scraping together my resources now.

Before, I never made a single suit of leather armor, and while I was always curious about the stone short swords and wooden spears, they weren't things I ever actually considered wasting the precious seconds to make.

Now though?

Getting the finances and mining team together required to create even a single dwarf squad to wear metal armor... carefully considering where I want my precious metal trap parts to go... having to learn how to make glass so that I can pump magma to the surface...

It's just very, very rewarding when I finally overcome these challenges one by one, and as my leather-wearing wrestlers hold off an invading troll army while my metal-toters run to throw down their picks and wood axes to grab their gear...

Good stuff.

I agree there should be a slider or option somewhere, so that people who don't like struggling to survive and struggling to even advance slightly as much as me can have their abundant metals back. But... I like it!

[tolkafox]

I stole 3 silver battleaxes and 2 silver halberds from the goblin ambush, no wonder they were kicking our asses. They were no match for our cage traps though, and they thought we were letting them in.

The one with 18 kills is getting shot to death with blunt bolts.

[IT 000]

I've spent the better part of the day genning multiple worlds and embarking on multiple sights to find out my special ambiguous metal was something like bismuth or zinc. At the least we should have a few guaranteed copper veins along with a few tin or iron veins within a reasonable distance from the surface. Uniform walls are nice and all, but when their covered in dwarf blood because the best armor I have is a willow shield something is wrong here.

Metal should be scarcer then finding gold every two digs like in .18, but in .19 it's russian roulette whether you get a weapons grade metal or a useless stone.

The more posts I read on these forums I seem to notice something, almost everybody is advocating for less minerals. And the people who are not usually have gotten iron or copper ore on their first few world gens. Me? I got copper on my fifth world gen out of the hours I've spent only to be killed by a goblin ambush consisting of six bowgobs and one axe gob. People are also saying 'It's just like 40d.' Okay, but in 40d obsidian was as strong as steel and we had magma rivers flowing 100 squares into the mountain. This isn't 40d, we have all the disadvantages and none of the advantages.

One thing that grinds my gears is that people are saying on this post and many other posts are calling other people 'complainers' and 'whiners' because they don't agree. I don't care what side you are on. Before .19 people used to say there were to much minerals, and no one called them whiners or complainers. Now that these people have their bone what do they do? They bash people over the head with it. If you take anything from this post please take this paragraph and keep it tucked away in a safe little +Gabbro Cabinet+

Also, shouldn't there be more primitive weapon options? a wooden club would be more effective than nothing (staffs?, rock hammers? atlatls? slings?) even training weapons should be dangerous (or painful at least) enough to convince a troglodyte to run instead of fight for 100+ pages. primitive hunting spears were little more than fire hardened wooden spears and they were dangerous enough to kill.

Modding in now.

[Hyndis]

I like the idea of the game as a sandbox type game. If you want to use all of those metals to make a gold pyramid, then do so. If you don't want to use the metal then don't use it. Simple as that.

But allowing the option to do whatever you want is critical. Taking options away is, IMO, a bad thing. I don't like games on rails. I like my sandboxes.

[Max White]

By Armoks beard, less metal is fun! For once I couldn't just buy out the first caravan and still have enough trading goods left over to buy the next five caravans too! This is fun!

[Mantonio]

By Armoks beard, less metal is fun! For once I couldn't just buy out the first caravan and still have enough trading goods left over to buy the next five caravans too! This is fun!

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I created a pocket region (because I like them, and their good for framerate) and there was only one non-aquifer site that had metals (multiple deep metals, to be precise. No shallow) and some kind of flowing water.

But it turns out that those metals are cobaltite, and more cobaltite. So now I'm scrounging in the dirt, cowering behind rows of cage traps and hoping that the next caravan brings copper instruments and cages for me to melt down so my wooden crossbow, wooden bolt and leather equipped army doesn't get completely wiped out when the next ambush appears.

How is this fun? How is this dwarfy?

[Max White]

Because you are cowering in a hole in the ground, surrounded by rivals more powerful then yourself, maybe for years, untill your army breaks the seiges in copper armour and stick kicks ass because they spent those years playing with spear traps and repeaters.

Being dwarfy isn't about having the best metal. It is about being badass in the face of doubtless fun.

[Kaelem Gaen]

So I'm reading here,  gobs still come arm to the teeth with goblinite??  Am I the only one who justifies it with "Well, they are raiders, thieves, siegers, ambusher and tons of other things.   They take over good iron sites after scouting out the area and screwing the people there.  Even if they don't do that they still raid a lot and can scrounge up all the iron and metal goodies to melt down and make their own!."

Granted as said elsewhere since I have trouble with the military system still I turn off invaders in the init.

[Supercharazad]

I'm loving the new metal scarcity, it means I actually feel the need to trade for stuff.

In my current fort, I'm in my second year, 40 dwarves, and a military of 10 swordsdwarves, all clad in adamantine, taking shifts to guard the outer gate (The only entrance to non-flyers). They don't spar, their training is going off to kill a herd of rhinoceri, usually with one of them dying in the process. Then I simply take a useless dwarf and enlist him, he goes off to pick up the equipment of his predeccessor, and I send off the squad to go kill some more rhinos.

I improvised, in fact, my steel stockpiles for when the addy runs out are coming straight from caravans.


EDIT: Well, that went to pot.

I mined about 80 more adamantine, and I hit demons, I tried to cover it, my dwarves were too slow, 38 are dead, one is melancholy and another is being shredded by demons.

[agatharchides]

I'm loving it, but then I got hematite, gold and galena on my first serious fort.  And I have to say, I've never been so excited to see 'You struck Galena' before. 

[Marshall Burns]

Not since the very first time I played have I been so excited for the dwarven caravan to arrive. I'm loving it. I've got something to do! There's challenge in the management department!

[Bouchart]

I always had so much metal ore laying around that I never really made stuff out of it.  The metal scarcity doesn't bother me so much, since I can buy steel from the caravan anyway.

[StephanReiken]

I'm not short on Metal. I can make all the Gold items I want. And thats about it.

But yes, less Metal is more realistic. Theres no way for your Fort to know if the area you've started in is good until they've actually tried digging into it. If there isn't any, its a short-lived fort if its a big deal to you, and you move on to the next location.

[narhiril]

I don't know what you people are smoking, but having to gen 5 worlds just to find one that lets you embark with an iron anvil is not "realistic" or "fun."

I'm going back to my metal-abundant fort in .18 where every single iron ingot went towards fighting off the six simultaneous sieging armies.  I'd rather have my dwarves fight for immortality versus hordes of goblins, furies, and nagas than versus a featureless block of gabbro that covers the entire embark.

You guys can fight all you want over "realism" in a game with dwarves, elves, and dragons, but please try to stop sapping the fun out of it for everyone else.  If I want to play a fantasy game and build a tower of gold 50 levels tall with iron spikes and aluminum gargoyles, I shouldn't have to search for a week for the right embark because someone complained that being able to find resources "isn't realistic."  You know what else "isn't realistic?"  Demons.  Minotaurs.  Magma fountains.  Creatures that become MORE productive when drunk.  Perpetual motion.  There are a million points I could make about things that are unrealistic that nevertheless make the game more fun, but all of them seem to have been ignored in this update.  Epic fantasy is not about realism.  There is a very important difference between "believable" and "realistic" that seems to have been glossed over.  "Believability" is enough rational properties to allow a world to be immersible.  "Realism" is the lack of possibility in our everyday lives that drives us to play Dwarf Fortress.

The reason we all love Dwarf Fortress so much is because it's so open ended.  Comparing the possibilities for players to have fun between 0.31.18 and 0.31.19 is like comparing a Toys 'R' Us to the Andromeda galaxy.  This change in the name of "realism" is driving a stake through the heart of what makes this game great.

TL;DR
WTB my fun metals back.